ORIGINAL Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR

Official Transcript of Proceedings
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
ORIGINAL
Title:
Public Meeting to Discuss the Hearing Process
for Judging the Safety of a Potential High
Level Waste Repository
Docket Number:
(not applicable)
Location:
Las Vegas, Nevada
Date:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001
Work Order No.:
NRC-221
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
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(202) 234-4433
Pages 1-139
A\
1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
+++++
2
3
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
4
. . . . .
5
PUBLIC MEETING TO DISCUSS THE HEARING
6
PROCESS FOR JUDGING THE SAFETY OF A
7
POTENTIAL HIGH-LEVEL WASTE REPOSITORY
8
. . . . .
9
WEDNESDAY,
MAY 23,
10
2001
1.1
12
LAS VEGAS,
13
NEVADA
. . . . .
14
The
Public
Meeting
convened
at
the
15
Regional Transportation Commission Building, 600 South
16
Grand
17
1:00 p.m.,
18
presiding.
19
PRESENT:
Central
Parkway,
F.X.
20
F.X.
"CHIP"
21
C.
22
LAWRENCE J.
23
DENNIS C.
"Chip"
Las
Vegas,
Cameron,
Nevada,
at
Facilitator,
CAMERON
WILLIAM REAMER
CHANDLER
DAMBLY
24
25
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INDEX
1
2
AGENDA ITEM
3
Welcome:
4
Introduction:
5
Meeting Objectives and Format
The Hearing as Part of
Overview of the Hearing Process:
7
Opportunities and Schedules
9
3
8
NRC's Licensing Process
6
8
PAGE
Steps in
Public
the Hearing Process for a
44
80
Potential Repository:
10
Pre-License Application Phase
84
11
Pre-Hearing Activities
89
1.2
Evidentiary Hearing
101
13
Appeals
105
14
Closing Remarks
138
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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3
1
P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2
(1:05 p.m.)
3
MR.
CAMERON:
My name is
Counsel
I'm the
Special
5
Nuclear
Regulatory
6
welcome you to the NRC' s public information meeting on
7
the NRC hearing process
8
application for a high-level waste repository at Yucca
9
Mountain.
It's
Public
Commission.
my
Liaison
and
4
10
for
Chip Cameron,
I
would
at
the
like
to
for a potential DOE license
pleasure
to
for today's meeting,
serve
as
your
11
facilitator
12
cover three items briefly with you before we go into
13
the substance of today's discussion.
14
I'd
15
objectives for the meeting;
16
of the meeting and ground rules for the meeting.
17
18
MR.
MR.
talk
McGOWAN:
a
little
secondly,
bit
about
go over format
(Inaudible comment from an
CAMERON:
We will, Mr.
McGowan.
We'll
We'll get to the introduction after
I do
get to that.
21
22
the third part, which is
23
you.
I'll
24
25
to
unmiked location.)
19
20
like
and I would like to
of
introduce my colleagues up here.
In
meeting,
an agenda overview for all
terms
of
objectives
for
today's
we want to provide you with information and
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1
answer your questions on the process that the NRC will
2
use for making a decision on a license application
3
that DOE may submit for the repository.
4
The hearing process is
also known as the
5
licensing proceeding,
6
responsibilities
7
activities
8
important one in
9
decision will be made on whether to grant or deny or
10
at
and it
in
the
is
regard
just one of many NRC
to
the
repository.
that this is
review
But
of
it's
a
DOE
very
where the initial
NRC
somehow condition the DOE license application.
We're here today in response to requests
11
12
from
13
particular
14
hearing process and how you might want to participate
15
in that process.
the
16
public
that
subject,
we
do
a
meeting
on
this
so that you can understand the
In terms of format and ground rules, we're
17
going to have
18
staff,
19
going to go out to you for questions and comments.
20
you do have a question, just signal me, and I'll
21
you this talking stick.
some brief presentations
by the NRC
and after each of those presentations we're
22
We are
taking
a
transcript
of
bring
today's
23
meeting,
24
review for anybody who wants to take a look at it.
25
and that transcript will be available
When
you
do
speak,
please
If
for
identify
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1
yourself and give us an affiliation,
2
I would just ask that one person speak at a time,
3
that
4
importantly,
5
whomever has the floor at the moment.
we
can
get
a
clean
if
appropriate.
transcript,
and,
more
so that we can give our attention
6
so
to
Please try to be concise in your questions
7
and comments.
I want to make sure that everybody who
8
wants to talk today gets an opportunity to do that.
9
That means we may have to ask you to just wrap up your
10
question or your comment,
11
other people in the audience.
12
so that we can move on to
I wanted to make a couple of points on
13
relevance
14
questions and comments may fit
15
topic that we're on at the time.
16
something that fits
17
I'll
18
sure to come back to that question and not lose it.
of
comments
today.
Not
all
of
your
neatly under the agenda
So that if
better later on in
make a note of that up here,
we do get
the program,
so that we will be
19
The second aspect of relevance that I'd
20
like to talk about is that we know that there's a lot
21
of concerns, a lot of questions, about various aspects
22
of the repository.
23
listen to people and to try to provide the information
24
on our responsibilities.
25
And the NRC is
always willing to
Today we really do want to focus on what's
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1
known as the hearing process,
2
focus there.
3
issues,
4
break that we're going to have or at the end of the
5
meeting.
If
there are other types of questions or
we'll try to
6
and we need to keep our
In
address
those with you at
the
terms of the agenda today we're going
7
to start
out with Mr.
8
here closest to all
9
Chief of the High-Level Waste Branch in
10
Nuclear Materials
11
And his branch is
12
Bill,
Bill Reamer,
of you.
who is
right over
And Bill is
the Branch
Safety and Safeguards
the branch,
the Office of
at the NRC.
the people who work for
for evaluating DOE work on the responsibility.
13
And he's going to talk to you about NRC
14
responsibilities
15
repository,
16
aspect into context for you, so you understand how all
17
of that fits
18
and
in
try
general,
to
place
in
regard
to
this hearing
the
process
in.
We'll
then go
to
questions
and answers
19
from Bill, and then we're going to go to Mr.
20
Chandler,
21
Associate General
22
and Administration at the NRC in
23
General
24
are the attorneys who are going to be representing the
25
NRC staff
who is
Counsel.
in
right over here.
Counsel
And Larry is
for Hearings,
the
Enforcement
the NRC's Office of
And the people who work
the hearing process,
Lawrence
for Larry
and Larry is
going
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1
to give you an overview of the hearing process.
2
We'll then take some questions and answers
3
at that point on overview issues.
We'll take a short
4
break,
go
5
Dambly.
6
for Materials,
7
the Office of General Counsel at the NRC.
and
we're
And Dennis is
8
9
then
going
to
be
Mr.
Litigation and Enforcement,
representing
Dennis
the Assistant General Counsel
And Dennis supervises
will
to
the
NRC
again in
the attorneys
staff
in
the
who
hearing
10
process in
11
Assistant General Counsels that work for Larry at the
12
NRC.
13
terms of hierarchy.
I would thank all
Dennis is
of you for being here
14
today.
15
sure
16
clear,
to make
17
speak,
to keep us organized and relevant.
And my job as a facilitator
that
18
the
information
provided
to try to make
by
has
the
NRC
back to you on,
20
I
a chance to
21
chart,
22
leave the meeting,
23
those particular items.
questions that we don't answer today,
will keep track of those again over on that
flip
so that we don't lose sight of those when we
24
so that we will get back to you on
I'm now going to ask Mr.
give
is
there are items that we need to get
19
25
is
sure that everybody
And if
one of the
us
the
overview
context
Bill Reamer
on
the
to
NRC
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1
responsibilities.
Bill?
2
MR.
3
Thanks
REAMER:
Thank you,
for
coming.
Chip.
My
name
4
Reamer.
5
the
6
introduced myself to most of you.
7
of your faces also from prior meetings.
8
see you.
is
Bill
I'm Chief of the High-Level Waste Branch at
Nuclear Regulatory
Commission.
I
think
I
have
I recognize a lot
I'm glad to
Thanks for coming.
9'
The meeting that we're holding today is
a
10
direct result of prior meetings that we've held where
11
we have described our role,
12
would be responsible
13
Not so great.
14
--
what we do,
and what we
can you hear me all
right?
Okay.
What
we
would
be
responsible
to
15
there
16
Department of Energy.
17
come back and describe the licensing process?"
18
it's
19
today.
were
a
really
20
license
that
application
filed
by
We had a question,
request
that
we're
do
if
the
"Could you
And so
responding
to
We were here a year ago in May and started
21
our description of that,
held a meeting.
I think some
22
of you probably attending that meeting.
The meeting
23
today is
24
process,
25
public participation can occur.
to address a specific aspect of the licensing
and
that's
our
hearing
process,
in
which
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The context that Chip talked about and the
2
context
3
details of the NRC hearing process is,
4
the NRC?
5
have
6
public health and safety.
that
I'll
describe
before
we
get
into
really, who is
We're an independent regulatory agency.
responsibility,
7
really,
only
the
to
We have no responsibility
We
protect
the
to promote
or
8
develop nuclear power or to develop a waste disposal
9
site
10
it
anywhere.
Our sole responsibility is
and regulate it
to protect the people in
We regulate
to regulate
this
room.
other nuclear projects.
We
12
regulate 100-plus nuclear powerplants that are in
the
13
United
14
facilities,
15
project if
11
States.
We
know
how
to
regulate
nuclear
and we will bring that expertise to this
there is
a repository at Yucca Mountain.
16
Our responsibility,
17
with respect to high-level waste disposal is
18
are supposed to regulate the Department of Energy in
19
this area.
20
Now,
the NRC --
as
set by Congress,
head of the NRC,
that we
our five
21
Commissioners,
22
They
23
independent of the President.
24
President can't remove them, because he's unhappy with
25
a decision that they make.
are
they are appointed by the President.
appointed
for
fixed
terms.
That is
They
are
to say that the
So the process has been
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1
specifically set up, so that they can make the correct
2
decision based on the facts.
3
The
law
requires
that
the
political
4
affiliations of those Commissioners be balanced,
5
they come
6
life.
7
former
8
regulating nuclear materials.
from a variety of
accomplished walks
They include attorneys,
state
9
regulator
and
who
nuclear engineers,
was
experienced
of
a
with
The five Commissioners are supported by a
10
technical staff of approximately 2,000.
11
that's
12
people that you will be hearing from --
13
the
14
describing the licensing process,
15
are attorneys that represent the technical staff and
16
support us.
here today
technical
17
from NRC
staff.
--
The
The group
myself and the
attorneys
other
are part of
who
will
be
Larry and Dennis,
We recommend to the Commission health and
18
safety regulations.
19
the technical merit of any license application that's
20
received by the agency,
21
on health and safety issues, and we interact with the
22
public as we are doing today and will continue to do
23
if
and we advise the Commission
this project goes forward.
24
25
Our responsibility is to evaluate
The technical staff is made up of a number
of
scientists
and
engineers.
Specifically,
with
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respect
2
there are approximately 35 of us who have a variety of
3
technical
4
independent
5
bring
6
individuals.
to a possible
high-level
backgrounds.
to
7
We're
contractor
bear
waste
located
another
staff
repository,
supported
in
Texas
of
by
that
an
would
approximately
45
The particular technical disciplines that
8
we have cover the waterfront of potential
9
issues
in
this project.
They range
technical
from waterflow
10
into
11
destructive
12
activity;
13
analyze
14
attorneys,
15
you today; inspectors,
16
compliance
17
noncompliances and follow up on those, because if
18
project goes forward we will treat
it
19.
that
the
20
Energy
21
we'll penalize them if
a
we
potential
repository;
events,
the
possibility
such as earthquakes
of
or volcanic
health physics people who understand how to
radioactive
22
effects
on
people;
including the folks who will be talking to
with
work
to
materials
on.
people who know how to assure
regulations,
We'll
comply with
expect
the
to
identify
this
like any project
Department
regulations
we
set,
of
and
they don't.
In addition, we have technical facilities
23
to do our own and independent work,
24
San Antonio that can conduct tests
25
experience
and knowledge
laboratories
in
and build our own
base that we can bring to
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bear,
so that we can ask the right questions of the
2
Department of Energy.
3
We have inspectors.
We have people who
4
are located in Las Vegas full-time.
5
on-site representatives
6
that office.
7
have
8
follow
9
responsive
10
and a fourth individual
I think they're all here today.
questions
up
There are three
after
with
this
them.
meeting,
Their
to your concerns.
your questions,
I
urge
mission
If
If
in
you
you to
is
to
be
they can't answer
they will get answers for you.
With respect specifically to a possible
11
12
repository,
13
responsibilities, and they are to set regulations that
14
are protective
15
affected by the repository.
16
be consistent with standards that will be prescribed
17
by the Environmental Protection Agency.
18
in
the
law
of people
does
define
who potentially
NRC's
could be
Those regulations have to
That's right
the law.
19
In
addition,
if
there
is
a
license
20
application that's filed with us,
21
is
22
construction,
23
make a decision again later whether to permit waste to
24
come to this site.
to
25
make
a
and,
decision
if
on
our responsibility
whether
a facility is
to
permit
constructed,
And as I mentioned earlier, it's
to
clear we
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have
2
responsibility to assure that DOE obeys our rules.
the
responsibility
3
and
I've said this
will
--
carry
out
the
how we will carry out
4
this role a number of times before, and it's
5
enough to continue to repeat.
6
we will carry out our role by reviewing all of the
7
information,
8
accessible,
making
important
But we will do this -
decisions
that
are
open,
and based on the facts.
9
We'll
use
what
I
call
a
step-wise
10
approach.
1L
application,
12
permit construction.
13
substantially complete and all of the information in
14
the license application is
15
then consider whether waste should come to the site.
16
We'll first
consider, if
whether
there's
there is a license
enough
information to
And only after construction is
properly updated would we
Each of these decisions
17
should be reversible,
18
later
19
won't go forward.
20
to do this in
21
everyone who is
that
22
so that if
this project
in
the process
the decision is made
should not go forward,
it
And as I have said before, we want
a way that maintains
open access
to
potentially affected.
The
law
says
that
we
are
to
make
a
23
decision on the license application within three years
24
of the submittal,
25
that we are to provide the opportunity for a full and
and it
also provides that in doing
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1
fair hearing.
2
talking principally about that.
And so at today's meeting we'll be
3
But I want to emphasize that before any
4
hearing could occur, before any licensing review would
5
take place,
6
project needs to go through.
7
needs to finish the scientific work that it's
8
and the analysis work that it's
9
then make a decision on whether to recommend the site.
10
If that decision is to recommend the site,
11
the President needs to, under the law, decide whether
12
he will approve that recommendation.
13
Nevada
14
President
15
notice disapproving the site.
is
there are a number of steps
given
the
approves
16
If
this
The Department of Energy
doing
doing right now,
authority
the
that
if
and
The State of
that
recommendation,
--
if
to
file
that notice of disapproval is
the
a
filed,
17
Congress
18
whether to approve or not approve the Department of
19
Energy's site recommendation.
20
to occur and be completed before the Department of
21
Energy has authority to submit a license application
22
to the NRC.
23
then reviews
the project
and must
decide
All of these steps have
If a license application is submitted, the
24
first
25
the
step that we will take is
application
to conduct a review of
for thoroughness.
It's
called an
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1
acceptance
2
consider
3
regulations require are included in
4
If
5
DOE,
6
complete our safety review.
review,
whether
and
all
the application is
of
our
the
If
will
information
incomplete,
and we will not start
7
objective
9
the next step of our review.
we will
and move to
That next step includes
10
a
11
environmental
12
accompany the license application.
13
to
clock to
complete,
then accept the application and docket it
of
our
we will return it
is
to
that application.
8
review
that
the three-year
the application
be
the
Department
impact
statement,
of
Energy
which
by
final
law
must
We will review that from the standpoint of
14
whether it
is
15
and we'll make that determination as a result of that
16
environmental review.
17
practical for the NRC to adopt the EIS,
In addition,
we will commence a detailed
18
safety review of the license application.
19
more
20
have the authority to require that.
21
capability to conduct our own independent analyses to
22
confirm
23
information that's
24
application,
25
review in
information
or
from the Department
disconfirm
the
If
we need
of Energy,
we
We also have the
calculations,
the
in the Department of Energy license
and we will document the results of our
a public report called the Safety Evaluation
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1
Report.
2
There are three potential outcomes of our
3
review.
One
outcome
deny
the
4
application if
DOE does not demonstrate safety in
the
5
repository.
6
could grant the application and permit construction to
7
go forward,
8
conditions,
9
could move forward.
Another
that
we
potential
would
outcome
or we could grant
the
is
that
application with
the gist
of the NRC role in
11
licensing process that sets the context
12
will be talking about today.
13
on a license application has to be based on a full
14
fair
15
the meeting as it
16
it
17
believe,
public hearing.
for what we
As I said, any decision
and
And I think as you will hear in
progresses,
if
that hearing occurs
an open,
objective decision.
So, Chip, maybe at this point we can break
for questions.
20
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
Let's
21
questions for Bill on his presentation,
22
to --
23
here.
right here to Judy,
go
out
for
and we'll go
and then we'll come back up
And just remember to identify yourself.
24
25
the
would follow well-established rules and lead to, we
18
19
we
which we would have to agree to before it
So that is
10
is
MS.
TREICHEL:
Judy Treichel,
NNWTF.
I
just had two on some of the stuff that you directly
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17
1
said.
2
substantially complete before you could go on to the
3
next phase of the license,
4
a
5
mean?
You
said
repository.
6
that
What
MR.
construction
to
be
which would be to operate
does
REAMER:
had
"substantially
Well,
complete"
I think "substantially
7
complete" means
8
needed to safely handle the material that comes to the
9
site,
to move it
all
that all
to its
of the facilities
--
of those facilities,
10
--
11
done and done in
12
NRC authorization.
13
MS.
TREICHEL:
that
15
underground and start
16
they go.
17
intend
So it
in a repository
as a minimum,
need to be
conformance with the design and the
14
they
to place it
that are
Okay.
to build about
So they have said
10 percent
placing waste in
of
the
the building as
didn't sound substantial.
The other question was that you said that
18
they must comply with all
19
know that DOE has to prove to you that they can do a
20
safe repository.
21
Yucca Mountain was sort of partially
22
decided
23
could shut that down?
24
25
of your rules.
Do you
--
I
Are you able to prove to us that if
that they weren't
doing
loaded and you
it
right,
that you
With a reactor you can force a shutdown.
Can you shut down a repository with waste arriving and
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18
1
waste
2
that,
3
can use on this?
in
place?
it
possible for you
so that we know that there is
4
MR.
REAMER:
5
proposed
6
reversal.
7
to be effective.
8
and
9
that,
regulation
to do
a heavy hammer you
There's a requirement in
that
the placement
the
of waste
be
And that requirement has to be demonstrated
there
is
If
the law requires reversibility,
no demonstrated
conceptual
way to
do
I don't see how the repository can go forward.
MR.
10
11
And is
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thank you.
to this gentleman right here.
12
MR.
PERNA:
My name is
13
a citizen activist.
14
they put up their goals,
15
they
16
packages.
17
followed
18
didn't put any time on this.
were
Frank Perna.
you
is
controlled
a
know,
long
slow
20
I'd
21
And the slow --
22
mean that
23
certainly sounds like that.
24
to put it
25
going to fail.
like
to know how long the
in
waste
release.
period
they
10,000 years,
isolation period
is
-
storage
Now,
this controlled slow release,
the waste package
-
goals is
isolation
Since we're talking about
I'm
They had a
and one of their
about,
Thunderbolt
19
sir.
I'm with Bechtel.
talking
by a
Yes,
Let's go
is.
do they
going to fail?
Otherwise,
the mountain, wait a while,
It
they're going
and then it's
They didn't put any time on that, and
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1
I couldn't wait for a meeting that was going to last
2
several hours.
3
Another
question
I
have
is
there
4
complete environmental impact statement.
5
know what roles they're going to take,
6
we don't know where they're
7
in,
8
Yucca Mountain.
since it
So we don't
or do we?
and there's
And
no rail
to
So, I mean, we really don't know anything,
10
and now I assume they don't either,
11
environmental
since there's
no
impact statement.
Now,
12
13
Commissioners.
14
Democrats?
15
country?
Is
16
parties?
I'd
there's
also
the
five
NRC
Are you talking about Republicans or
What about
the
smaller
parties
in
this
there any representation of the smaller
like to see Ralph Nader take
17
(Laughter.)
18
I
19
no
going to bring the rail
ends at Caliente,
9
is
think
he
would
be
a
-
very
good
Commissioner.
20
Okay.
Now,
21
guess --
22
or to the DOE.
23
sealed
24
objectives
25
position iit was in
I assume --
off
Senator Reed sent questions I
I'm not sure if
it
was to the NRC
There was an experiment
part
were
of
to
the
put
tunnel,
the
and
mountain
before they built
where
their
back
they
stated
in
the
the tunnel.
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1
And their problem is that it's
2
humidity, condensation.
3
it
In fact,
it's
loaded with
so humid,
and
condenses on the walls, or wherever.
4
Well,
this experiment failed.
There are
5
two or three explanations why.
6
failed because their circuit breakers were tripped,
7
and then they went on battery backup.
8
experiment stopped --
9
of the information.
10
or it
Well, their
The first
one was it
And then the
failed before they got all
second explanation
--
what had
11
happened
12
sealed
the
13
that's
why they didn't
14
Well,
15
no one has checked the continuity to the meters,
16
the whole experiment,
--
the
second
tunnel,
someone
I suggest that if
17
explanation
was before
turned the
have
the
full
switch,
they
and
information.
someone can trip a switch, and
it's
or to
in progress.
But now the third one is
Senator Reed's
18
question here --
19
not the cause of the power loss and subsequent data
20
loss.
21
was caused by high humidity conditions and tripping of
22
the ground fault interrupter breakers.
we have determined that moisture was
In October 2000,
23
MR.
CAMERON:
24
second right now?
25
will be
--
we suspected the power loss
Sir,
Let me tell
we do want
to
could you hold for a
you why.
focus
I think Bill
on hearing process
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1
issues today, and that doesn't minimize the importance
2
of your questions.
3
I think that what I would like to do is
4
ask Bill to address the NRC Commissioner's question.
5
And also,
6
regard to the environmental impact statement,
7
may help
8
about that.
if
you could talk about the NRC's role
answer
9
And
some
I
of
guess
the
I
gentleman's
would
ask
and that
questions
on
your
10
technical questions
11
questions
--
12
raised,
NRC staff
13
the break and make sure that we answer this.
if
14
15
in
two
the humidity and Senator Reed's
--
and also on the
first
point
could talk to this
that
you
gentleman at
So we're going to go with two answers to
those questions,
16
MR.
17
MR.
but thank you,
PERNA:
sir.
Thank you.
REAMER:
And,
specifically,
Chad
18
Glenn,
19
your left,
20
quite familiar with the points that you're raising.
21
I'm aware in
22
similar concerns to what you've stated.
who is
23
sitting
behind you and a little
bit
can talk about the humidity question.
to
He's
general of what you're raising and have
The
President
24
Commission.
25
he decides the political
decides
who
is
He has the authority to appoint,
affiliations
on
the
and so
of the people
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22
1
that can be appointed.
2
confirmed
3
Presidential
4
confirmation of the Senate.
5
I can say about the political
by
6
the
And the nominees have to be
Senate
appointees
as
well,
subject
so
to
they
are
advice
and
That's kind of the best
affiliations.
I respect your point of view that there
7
should be a strong independent view.
8
an independent regulatory agency,
9
decisions based on a technical past,
10
political
11
commitment
12
independent decision.
affiliations
of
13
the
of
the
technical
Because we are
we should be making
not based on the
people.
staff
is
The final environmental
to
And
our
make
the
impact statement
14
is
15
point.
16
statement
17
recommendation decision, and that environmental impact
18
statement
19
including the National Environmental
really in
the Department of Energy's court at this
They have to finalize the environmental impact
20
before
has
they
go
to meet the
And there were
forward
with
requirements
any
of the
filed,
22
that were filed,
23
responded
24
transparent way that we can see.
law,
Policy Act.
many comments
21
site
that
were
I think on the order of thousands of comments
25
to
by
and the law requires that
the
Department
of
those be
Energy
in
a
When the NRC looks at the environmental
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1
impact statement if
2
going to be concerned whether there is
3
that's
4
environmental
5
whether
what's
6
impact
statement
7
different than what DOE is
8
then be proposing to the NRC to be licensed.
this project goes forward, we are
not included in
9
--
right here,
11
Mr.
been
analyzed
is
in
that
in
some
has
important
the
way
Okay.
significantly
We're
would
going
to go
and then we're going to come back up to
Yes?
MS.
ALICE:
Laurie Alice, Nevada,
from the
13
General's Office.
14
--
15
substantive technical questions and the process.
16
I think sometimes there's an overlap.
there
seems
17
On the issue of the EIS,
to
be
a
rather
fuzzy
But on the issue of EIS,
if
inadequate
19
not address
key safety concerns,
20
understanding based on an earlier
21
that you would do a supplemental EIS.
certain
MR.
23
is
24
you've posited,
25
At this point,
REAMER:
that there is
a gap in
If
between
And
the NRC does
determine that it's
or,
since we
line
18
22
or
environmental
now proposing to --
CAMERON:
McGowan.
12
EIS,
potential environmental impacts,
MR.
10
the
new information
as you say,
it
does
was my
meeting with the NRC
the outcome of the review
the coverage of the EIS as
then a supplemental needs to be done.
not knowing the specific way in
which
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1
there might be problem,
2
NRC that would do the supplement.
3
that we would tell
MS.
4.
I can't say it
would be the
It's
conceivable
DOE to do the supplement.
ALICE:
Now,
just
at
the
risk
of
5
coming dangerously close to a substantive or technical
6
issue,
7
transportation issue?
how
8
9
is
MR.
be
the
REAMER:
presented.
transportation that is
11
of Energy EIS?
13
MS.
We think it's
going
Well,
Is
10
12
NRC
new
ALICE:
I
the
information
not included in
think it's
on
the Department
quite obvious.
not addressed at all.
MR.
REAMER:
Yes.
15
MS.
ALICE:
So
absolutely deficient in
17
address
the same question would
there
14
16
to
MR.
REAMER:
Right.
we
would
say
that
is
that respect.
And so the NRC staff
would
18
take their
19
if
20
party,
21
hearing,
22
would decide whether the EIS needs to be supplemented
23
or not.
there is
24
25
own look and reach a conclusion.
they
in
And then,
a proceeding and the State of Nevada is
could
present
their
position
that licensing proceeding,
MS.
ALICE:
Am I
in
a
that
and the Board
to understand that the
NRC has not decided whether they will address or not
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25
1
the issue of transportation?
2
MR.
3
decision
4
statement is
5
which
6
review in
REAMER:
until
must
the
really
final
issued.
comply
We
environmental
And then,
with
can't
NEPA,
of course,
would
be
make
impact
that EIS,
subject
to
the courts.
7
MS.
ALICE:
But you're not really being
8
responsive to the issue of whether transportation
9
a key concern.
MR.
10
11
a
REAMER:
It
is
clearly was a concern in
our comments.
12
MS.
ALICE:
Okay.
13
MR.
REAMER:
Yes.
14
MR.
CAMERON:
15
questions here,
16
them.
Okay.
and I'm trying to keep track of all
We're going to go to Mr.
17
And if
18
particular
19
process,
We have a number of
issue
that is
you have
is
going
fair
game.
20
Mr.
McGowan?
21
MR.
McGOWAN:
22
Tom McGowan,
McGowan.
a question about
to
of
be
addressed
Thank you,
how a
in
the
sir.
Las Vegas resident.
I want
23
to what extent of public comment will be allowed at
24
the pre-decision stage,
25
a footnote to this.
and,
if
not,
Do you mind if
why not?
I
I have
smoke?
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1
MR.
CAMERON:
2
MR.
McGOWAN:
There is
Well,
3
much.
4
the
5
accessible environment,
6
figure out how to do that.
7
you're here,
the
thank you very, very
You've just set the official
release
of
safety
toxic
NRC standard for
contaminants
which is
into
none,
the
zero,
human
nil.
You
But I'm here to see why
very frankly.
8
9
no smoking in here.
If
you call this the meeting to address
of
a
potential
repository,
I
think
you
10
might want to revise that to read the potential safety
11
or
12
understand what your position is.
non-safety
13
of
a
repository.
trying
No matter how much you deny it,
14
not
15
opinion.
here
16
in
an
objective
And if
sense
question on the public record in
18
241,
you are
whatsoever.
My
19
you are on the record
compliance with NRS
the Nevada Open Meeting Law,
20
to
you will now respond to the first
17
21
I'm
and tell
us where
Thank you.
MR.
CAMERON:
Bill, do you understand the
MR.
REAMER:
I think I do.
question?
22
When we make
23
a proposal,
24
will come to Nevada and present that proposal and seek
25
public comment.
if
it's
in
the pre-licensing setting,
we
We presented proposed regulations a
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27
1
couple
of
years
2
point we'll be in
3
comments on those regulations.
4
ago.
are
--
hopefully,
So the gist of my statement is
licensing context.
6
present it
MR.
back
9
Johnson,
some
in
When we have a proposal,
the pre
we will
to you for comment.
7
8
at
a position to respond to the public
5
10
We
We're
going to go
then
we'll
go
and then Dennis Bechtel.
And,
here
to
CAMERON:
Kalynda,
Okay.
and
you could just identify yourself for us,
MS.
11
12
Alert.
I
had
13
addressed last
14
was.
15
TILGES:
a
Kalynda
couple
night,
of
Abby
Kalynda,
if
please.
Tilges,
questions
to
that
Citizen
weren't
and a continuation of one that
I asked you a question on slide number 4,
16
that
it
has
17
engineers in
18
to be licensed.
19
making these decisions,
20
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
21
recently
come
to
my
attention
that
the Department of Energy are not required
And I asked if
the engineers who,
are required to be licensed by
I was told that some are licensed in
22
states but all
23
clarity
24
in,
25
more clarity
in
are professionals.
I'd
like
other
further
on that as to what states people are licensed
what's your definition of a
"professional,"
just
for one.
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My
1
second
question
went
with
slide
2
number 9, where you set rules that are consistent with
3
the
4
concerned.
5
and backroom talk about the NRC so to speak breathing
6
down EPA's neck to set higher standards
7
would like to set.
8
in,
EPA standards
if
for Yucca Mountain.
I'm kind of
We've been hearing a lot of news coverage
And I'm wondering how that
you have to abide by their
9
And the last
10
number
11
Regulatory
12
Energy's
13
does that mean?
15,
that
than the EPA
Commission
guidelines.
question I have is
the
law
to
requires
adopt
the
on slide
the
Nuclear
Department
final EIS to the extent practicable.
14
(Laughter.)
15
Thank you.
16
MR.
17
Bill,
18
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
take those in
REAMER:
fits
Thank you,
of
What
Kalynda.
any order.
The first
question,
I think
19
the details I would need to get back to you,
but the
20
answer to your question last
21
requirement that engineers --
22
a requirement,
23
its
24
think that's
25
night.
night was there is
not a
that we don't an impose
NRC does not impose a requirement
employees that its
engineers be licensed.
on
And I
what we provided to you as an answer last
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1
The specifics that you ask for in terms of
2
information
3
I need to put that in
4
can do that.
5
I think I will need to get back to you.
Now,
6
Environmental
7
final
8
Budget in
9
agencies,
a parking lot and respond,
the
other
Protection
regulation
to
the
--
okay.
The
EPA
Agency
submitted
Office
of
the
NRC,
are
review by OMB and are participating in
11
of Management and Budget is
draft
and
A number of
involved
10
12
a
I
the
--
Management
January for interagency review.
including
if
it.
in
that
The Office
participating in
it.
The NRC's position on standards we have
13
discussed many times
14
present that position.
15
at
16
standard by EPA that EPA is
17
law
18
standard.
some
point
requires
will
that
in
Nevada,
to
The result of the OMB process
be,
the
I
believe,
satisfied
NRC be
19
So it's
20
MR.
CAMERON:
21
MR.
REAMER:
issuance
with,
consistent
of
a
and the
with
that
-
22
practical is
23
basically two areas --
24
us to adopt if
25
in
the
and we continue
And to the extent practical?
Oh,
yes,
to
the
what I was trying to refer to.
it
extent
There are
would not be practical for
there were new information not included
environmental
impact
statement
that
had
a
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30
1
significant
2
consequence.
environmental
3
It
what
was
if
5
statement
6
significantly
7
Energy proposed in
9
analyzed
in
was different
different
MR.
--
we have
or
environmental
would not be practical for us to adopt,
4
8
impact
a
the
from what
the
material
of
Okay.
questions,
And I think we have
and I'd
like
followup on this.
11
during the break or come back at the end.
13
MS.
ask
and then Dennis
and up here to Susi Snyder.
14
to
But we may have to follow up on it
Let's go to Abby Johnson,
Bechtel,
is,
the license application.
10
12
impact
from what the Department of
CAMERON:
lot
environmental
JOHNSON:
Abby?
Abby Johnson, Eureka County.
15
On slide number 14,
16
that you need to verify that the application contains
17
all
of the required information.
Is
18
of
information
what
19
information is?
20
I have two questions.
checklist
MR. REAMER:
21
issue
22
standard is
23
be contained in
24
staff
25
the
once
the
about
there some kind
all
of
that
The regulations that we would
Environmental
Protection
set would describe what it
the application.
would issue a --
You said
is
Agency
required to
In addition,
the NRC
what's called a review plan for
license application,
and that review plan would
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1
further describe what the staff
2
to meet that requirement,
3
the application.
4
believes is
acceptable
what must be contained in
The review plan would be issued after
5
NRC finalizes its
6
the EPA issues its
7
regulations,
MS.
8
slide 14
9
clock starts,"
is
which won't come until
standard.
JOHNSON:
it
the
says,
"If
My
second
accepted,
question
the
on
three-year
and the clock relates to the NRC staff
10
safety review.
11
and approve the license?
12
You have three years to do that review
MR.
years.
REAMER:
The law says
that
we have
13
three
14
Congress that we need an additional year,
15
review could be completed in
16
really within four years,
17
the review and make a decision within three years.
18
It
MS.
gives us the avenue
JOHNSON:
19
litigation,
how does
20
timeframe?
And in
21
analysis,
22
which exceeds four years,
23
how is
that
24
25
if
so that the
accordance with the law
but the law says complete
Now,
if
relate
your conducting
you are
doing a
the
EIS
to the
is
under
three-year
the confirmatory
confirmatory
analysis
just like the heater test,
-
MR.
first,
that
to notify the
REAMER:
Yes.
the question would be:
Taking the
is
last
one
there enough data
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1
from that heater test
2
permit construction?
3
all
4
I talked about the step-wise process?
5
enough
6
application would not be granted.
and all
If
of the other
there is
not enough data from
of the testing to permit construction --
data
7
to
It's
8
construction
9
fact,
the
permit
continues
proposed
If
--
testing
will
regulations
require
11
including data from the heater test,
12
and
13
licensing decisions that have been made,
14
safety case that it
to
consider
15
So it
continue
whether
it's
that
to
analyze
consistent
with
with its
the
own
has presented.
will have the obligation to continue
that in,
18
where we decide whether to bring waste to the
19
the new data from the heater
20
analyzed in
there is
to factor
an operating decision that -
test
site,
would have to be
the context of that decision.
21
MR.
CAMERON:
And
the
litigation,
EIS
-
23
MR.
REAMER:
24
MR.
CAMERON:
25
the
to analyze that
17
litigation
In
data,
to look at the data from the heater test,
22
as
that
16
and if
the
continue.
Department
Energy
not
then
we recognize
10
of
remember
there's
construction,
recognized
data to
Yes.
--
if
we need to,
back to our colleagues from General Counsel.
we'll
go
But why
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1
don't you give it
2
MR.
a whirl.
REAMER:
Yes,
sure.
3
difficult
4
play.
5
be complete.
6
the outcome of the litigation
7
needs to be more environmental
8
done --
9
work by the Department of Energy.
in
It's
It's
a little
abstract to know exactly how that would
quite possible that the litigation
in
On the other hand,
other words,
I
10
bit
think
all
it's
would
possible that
might mean that there
impact statement work
that the statement needs more
of
that
we
11
factor in
12
it
13
environmental statement being complete,
14
can we do that.
15
do on this.
would
have
to
to our timing decision and consider whether
really makes sense to go forward without the final
16
And so that's
MR.
17
the --
18
to
19
litigation
20
could
21
don't know if
22
but
CAMERON:
or, you know,
really the best I can
And Bill
is
the
--
I
think
an EIS has to come from the DOE recommendation
the
President.
And the
assumption
is
that
the
would have to be over before that document
accompany
a
Presidential
recommendation.
that goes to what Abby is
I
asking or not,
-
23
MR.
REAMER:
24
little
25
that any litigation
bit
I
don't
out of my area on this,
think
so.
I'm a
but I don't think
needs to be complete
before the
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1
EIS would go forward.
2
3
MR.
CAMERON:
Larry,
do you have anything
you want to add on that?
4
MR.
CHANDLER:
Bill is essentially correct
5
on that.
6
litigation
7
process leading to potential authorization --
8
of
9
construction authorization,
10
But the litigation
is
--
the completion of the
an element of the overall decisionmaking
construction
authorization
or
be it
acting
approval
on
the
denial
--
or approval with conditions.
So
11
the period of
time
that
12
contemplates
13
extensive
14
environmental
15
associated with the hearing process.
--
or
four
review
documents,
MR.
Bechtel,
three
licensing
16
17
approval
years
of
the
--
the
anticipates
application,
as well as the --
CAMERON:
Okay.
statute
anything
Let's go to Dennis
and then we'll go to Susi.
18
MR.
BECHTEL:
Dennis
Bechtel,
Clark
--
fact,
19
County.
20
Department
21
say,
22
you consider,
23
the state or Clark County,
24
kind of determining the adequacy of how DOE treated
25
the comments on the EIS.
When you
were
considering
of Energy has not considered
issues on transportation
or other
if,
in
adequately,
issues,
will
say, comments by other organizations of
or,
you know,
when you're
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1
MR.
REAMER:
I think I understand.
It's
2
a difficult
3
that the comments that someone has on transportation,
4
they
5
responded to, and litigated
6
the
7
was adequate.
one to answer.
were
federal
8
9
made
to
the
Department
in
a
second look at
of
Energy,
and
a federal court.
And
I don't think the NRC would
those
comments.
10
think
11
telling
12
consider the adequacy of the EIS.
13
NEPA
14
impact statement including the litigation
15
that.
--
for example,
court reached the decision that the EIS
In that case,
take
Let's say,
and
this
the NRC,
process
is
is
that
what
--
is
what
In
fact,
the
law
I
is
not to create a second forum to
would
follow
That belongs in
the
a
environmental
in courts on
16
On
17
transportation
18
environmental impact statement,
19
these comments that you --
the hypothetical
20
that you refer to,
think the question for us
21
is,
22
environmental
23
question of whether it's
24
to reach a decision on that.
are
25
they
MR.
the
other
hand,
information
then I
material
impacts?
BECHTEL:
that
there
is
new
not
in
the
was
that has raised all
from
And
if
the
do
affect
practical to adopt?
But it's
comments
standpoint
they
of
of
this
We have
conceivable
that
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1
part
of
the
EIS
2
transportation,
3
comments.
may,
but it
some
form,
address
may not adequately address our
So does it
address
4
MR.
5
you presented it
6
picture
7
we're kind of talking in
8
if
9
the draft EIS,
of,
in
-
REAMER:
Well,
there --
and we don't have a complete
you know,
I think just the way
what we're
talking
generalities.
about,
But if
so
the -
comments are made as part of the comment process on
10
way
that
the
11
commenter
12
pursue
13
document.
and DOE considers those comments in
commenter
has
a
decision
that as part
14
thinks
And if
to
was
make
wrong,
about
of the judicial
then
the
whether
review of
part of the judicial review process,
16
that NRC would take a look at those comments.
17
the NRC would say,
18
with what DOE did,
19.
So that's
"Well,
to
that
the commenter does not pursue,
15
a
as
then I'm not sure
I think
apparently he was satisfied
even though it
wasn't quite
right."
really your responsibility.
20
Do you understand my answer?
21
MR.
BECHTEL:
Sort of.
If,
in
fact,
the
22
NRC modifies the --
23
it
24
of
25
something that would be considered at a final hearing,
or accepts the modified EIS, would
be then the final -the
hearing
or,
process?
say, the new EIS be part
Would
that
be
part
of
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1
or a hearing,
2
separate hearing?
MR.
CAMERON:
I mean
-
This may be something that
3
Larry or Dennis is
4
the role of the EIS in
5
don't mind, Dennis, we'll just put that in
6
lot and come back to it.
7
And
going to cover --
in other words,
the hearing process.
we're
going
to
go
to
Susi,
gentleman here,
9
we're going to bring on our next presenter.
and take one more question,
MS.
I'm with
SNYDER:
Hi.
My name is
11
and
12
questions.
The first
13
which is
it
14
whether to permit construction
15
license the operation.
--
16
the
Shundahai.
one is
My
question
process,
18
decisions?
19
construction
20
licensing permit?
So
will
the
permit
and
Go ahead.
Susi Snyder,
a
couple
will
then
REAMER:
Yes.
22
MS.
SNYDER:
Okay.
easy one,
and deciding
this
to
hearing
apply to both of those
hearing
MR.
of
and then whether
is:
this formal process,
this
and then
a real quickie,
21
process
go
go
again
Good.
for
for
a
the
I told you it
was a quick and easy one.
24
25
have
relates to slide number 9,
17
23
I
you
the parking
8
10
So if
The next question is:
will this
process
apply to modified transportation tasks that would then
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1
be
2
Mountain?
used
in
the
--
to
transport
3
MR.
REAMER:
No.
4
MS.
SNYDER:
Okay.
wastes
to
And the last
Yucca
question
5
I have is:
6
the
7
preparing a memorandum of understanding with the NRC
8
and the Department of Energy,
9
eliminate the EPA from the nuke business.
EPA
I understood from a meeting with some of
officials
that
they're
And I'm wondering,
10
in
the
process
which would virtually
if
that happens,
would
11
the NRC then take the lead on setting standards,
12
would that go to Department of Energy?
13
MR.
REAMER:
Well,
of
or
the law right now gives
14
the Environmental Protection Agency the responsibility
15
to set the standard.
16
memorandum of understanding that you are speaking to.
17
I
18
respond to that.
don't know
19
the
I'm not familiar with the MOU or
scope of
so
I
can't
directly
But my opinion would be the law says that
20
EPA
21
standard.
22
understanding that says,
must
23
24
it,
set
They
MR.
to see if
25
the
standard.
cannot
CAMERON:
there is
issue
They
a
must
set
memorandum
the
of
"We're not going to do that."
Could we check at some point
such an MOU?
All right.
Let's go to this gentleman right here, and
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1
then we'll take one other question.
2
MR.
3
usually speak loud anyway.
4
comment --
5
the
6
Owaka.
7
Clark County.
8
through the Snow Mountain Reservation.
oh,
ELZEFTAWY:
you
hear
me?
I
I'm here to just make a
my name is
Las Vegas Pima
Can
Atef Elzeftawy.
I am with
Tribe and also their
cousins
in
Those are the tribes that are located here in
9
1-15 goes
A couple
through the Moapa;
of months
ago
the
95 goes
chairman of
10
both tribes
and myself met with the chairman of the
11
Commission,
your
12
opinion that we adamantly,
13
we oppose even the idea of creating a new repository.
14
Commission,
and
we
expressed
as a Native American tribe,
We did not get into technical things.
15
background
16
waste,
17
with the NRC in
18
probably with the state,
is
about
15
--
10,
15 years
since the passage of the Act,
19
Washington,
I'm
not
addressing
aspect
of
21
that.
But the tribe has
22
there
23
express their
24
fishy in
is
25
a
D.C.,
three and a half
here
learned
I
the
opinion that,
Technically
two
technical
know all
this
and they wanted me
this program all
nuclear
as a colleague,
or the hearings.
meeting
in
My
and some others.
20
that
our
about
morning
to
again, there is
come
that
and
something
along.
speaking,
the
NRC
does
not
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1
have
2
knowledge
3
hydrogeologist,
as a secondary hydrogeologist.
4
diversity
the
5
regarding the engineering design or the geology are so
6
large that no matter how long and how much money the
7
DOE is
8
nail it
the
accurate
you
rule,
guys
and
regardless
have,
as
a
uncertainty
going to spend on it,
of
how
geologist,
in
the
much
as
a
The
programs
they are not going to
down.
9
That reminds me with the DNA we have.
We
10
all
11
of us is
12
will have the knowledge to really say how safe as -
13
as related to that particular scientific knowledge.
have the same DNA --
14
99.9 percent.
completely different.
Yet each one
So I don't think we
So what the idea is now, what we want to
15
today
16
which they are,
17
that it
18
the environment.
19
want to see it
is
20
we wanted
it
to make
it
--
if
that
happens,
has to be so tight to the point
is not going to impact the water or the air or
They worship that,
and they don't
impacted.
They finally got a couple pieces of acres.
21
They don't want to see these
22
either by the transportation or none of these things.
23
And it's
24
really a fact.
25
acres
to be impacted
the only land they've had,
The
only
land
we
have
and that's not
for
these
four
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1
tribes is
that litigation,
2
somehow,
somewhere,
3
The DOE perception to these people is
4
they would like just to comment and say that you guys
5
need to tell
6
truth.
litigation,
the NRC perception
the truth,
7
litigation
is
. So
not good.
not good.
And
and the whole truth, but the
None of us probably
a
--
few of us around
8
here
9
designed and passed by the NRC releases radioactive,
10
knew
that
every
except the licensee.
nuclear
I've seen it
You build a
11
powerplant
in
nuclear
powerplant
place
13
environmentalist.
14
a risk of releasing nuclear powerplants in
15
the same thing with Yucca Mountain.
16
not the safe type,
and
17
I'm
not
really
a
but we don't trust
19
that's
in
some
closed-minded
I know the risk of that.
There is
air.
It's
Yucca Mountain is
and that will never happen.
So their opinion is
18
very
is
other areas.
12
--
which
them.
our feeling.
do the best you can,
I'm sorry to say that,
but
Thank you.
20
MR.
CAMERON:
21
MR.
REAMER:
Thank you.
And we're not asking you to
22
blindly
23
meetings like we hold today, and the reasons that I've
24
been to Nevada five --
25
and five times in
trust
us.
The
reason
that
eight times in
the last
two months,
we're
the last
is
holding
year,
because we
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1"
want
to
2
describe what our role is,
3
our activities
describe
what
we
are
doing,
we
want
to
we want to describe what
are.
4
We want to do that,
so that we can get an
5
understanding of your concerns, which you've expressed
6
very articulately, and we'll continue to do that.
7
that's
8
you've expressed.
what I
9
MR.
CAMERON:
respond to the concerns
Okay.
Thanks,
Bill.
We're taking one more question,
10
11
intend to do,
And
and then
we're going to bring Larry Chandler up.
12
Steve?
13
MR.
FRISHMAN:
Steve
Frishman
with the
14
State of Nevada.
You have a proposed license renewal,
15
Part
that
16
evaluating
17
we'll
18
integrity safety assessment,
63,
and
go
19
in
it
the service
through
the
discusses
facility
--
I
the
process
for
and operations,
and
think
it's
called
an
or something like that.
Do other rules of the provision apply in
20
the licensing consideration as well?
21
you
22
draft EIS,
23
is
24
Valley
25
licensing
an example.
In
our draft
And let
supplement
to DOE's
one of the options proposes a facility
the equivalent of a temporary storage site
that
me give
is
right
process
with
now
the
being
NRC.
--
that
at Skull
they're
The
facility
in
a
is
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43
1
essentially identical.
2
Would
the
3
applies
4
applied to this facility
5
DOE service facility?
in
that
6
MR.
standards
licensing
REAMER:
7
what we're talking about
8
final rule.
Part 63 is
9
MR.
10
go for Part 63.
11
MR.
the
proceeding,
rule
Part
that
72,
be
that is
within the proposed
Okay.
Let's first
is
a proposed
clarify
rule,
not
a
a proposed regulation.
FRISHMAN:
REAMER:
of
Well,
Well,
the same thing would
your question related
12
to the integrated safety assessment which is
13
the
14
finalized,
and the state requirements that relate to
15
evaluating
preclosure.
16
Energy
17
regulation.
proposed
needs
18
Part
to
The
plan
63.
at
And that
And then
demonstrate
staff
will
19
review
20
forward,
21
the
22
regulation.
23
should be raised again,
24
be most transparent to you,
25
staff
some
needs
compliance
if
a
with
Yucca
this
expects
At
to
that
implement
point,
I
that
project
think
because that's
part
the
that
goes
--
how
of
the
question
where it
Steve Frishman,
of
Mountain
and explain how they will implement
staff
to be
the Department
issue
point
rule
part of
will
what the
would find acceptable under Part 63.
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And if
1
there were specific aspects that
2
you felt should be included that weren't,
3
Skull Valley, which you've mentioned, I hope you would
4
state this.
5
MR.
6
If
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thanks,
because of
Bill.
there's some clarification that we can
7
give Steve on that question during the break, let's
8
that.
9
do
MR.
FRISHMAN:
I'll
11
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
12
We're next going to go Larry Chandler, who
10
be here trying to get
it.
Thanks,
Bill.
13
is
14
process.
15
questions, and then we'll take a break, and then well
16
come
17
specifics.
going to
give you
We'll
an
then
overview
go
back to Dennis Dambly,
to
of
you
the
for
hearing
overview
who will give us some
18
MR.
19
I do appreciate the opportunity to be here
CHANDLER:
Thank you,
Chip.
20
this afternoon.
21
questions that had been raised following some other
22
meetings that were out here, and it's
23
is
24
hearing process.
Some time ago I had received some
some mystery perhaps
25
clear that there
associated
with the NRC's
I hope I can provide some information to
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45
1
you
2
context
3
overall status of the Commission review of a pending
4
application
5
repository.
all
that
might
demystify
that
on the hearing process
6
process,
as it
fits
try to provide
a
general
7
first
8
mentioned at the outset, Dennis Dambly,
9
will
shortly
after
that
with
details on the specific rules that are in
11
any
12
hearing.
that
may
I'm going to
relate
address
to
some
more
place for
a
the
As Chip
my colleague,
10
proceeding
to a
overview
of how the NRC hearing process works.
continue
a
into the
that may be received with respect
I'll
13
put
repository
current
rules
14
that the Commission applies
15
Those are the rules in
Title 10 of the Code of Federal
16
Regulations
2.
17
proposed
18
published,
19
effect on the rules in
20
will bear,
21
for a repository.
22
Those
in
Part
changes
that
in
I
will
the
not
address
Commission
roughly a month ago,
Part 2,
the hearing process.
recently
which will have some
some in
particular that
or could bear I should say, on the hearing
were
largely
streamlining
rules.
23
They do affect some of the timeframes involved --
24
could
25
substantive way in
be
some
involved,
but
don't
overall
which a hearing is
affect
that
the
conducted.
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1
For those of you who may be interested,
2
I'd be happy to provide a citation to those rules.
3
And just to let you know,
4
has been extended recently, and any comments on those
5
proposed rule changes can be submitted by the middle
6
of September of this year.
7
the comment period on them
In connection with those proposed rules,
8
though,
9
that
there was one decision the Commission made
is
fairly
substantial
and
significant
with
10
respect to a repository proceeding.
11
affirmed
12
practice in connection with the repository proceeding.
that
13
it
would
use
its
The Commission
formal
rules
of
There has been some discussion about using
14
some
15
Commission decided to continue to apply the rules in
16
Subpart G, the so-called formal hearing process,
to
17
augment
in
18
Subpart J,
19
proceeding.
informal
the
procedures,
rules
which
20
but
that
are
are
specific
in
the
otherwise
What is a hearing?
to
end
laid out
a
repository
This is not a hearing.
21
This
22
communicate information to you.
23
make a decision.
24
achieve some initial
25
and views of the process that we will apply in
is
a
public
meeting.
Hopefully,
the
We're
here
just
to
We're not going to
we can understand
-
understanding of your concerns
terms
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47
1
of our review.
2
The Commission has typically employed two
3
--
as
a
general
matter,
4
procedure.
5
referred
6
procedures.
7
They are a fairly
8
although
9
literally
and universally apply the federal rules of
10
evidence
or
11
lenient and forgiving in
two
different
kinds
of
The formal procedures of Subpart G that I
to
tend
to
be,
if
you
will,
trial-type
I'm sure many of you have seen trials.
structured and regimented process,
our
12
administrative
procedures.
The
proceedings
They
are
a
don't
little
more
that respect.
Commission's
informal
rules
of
13.
practice,
14
largely paper exchange type of proceedings.
15
type of hearing process that you may be familiar with
16
are the kinds of legislative hearings that are often
17
held in
18
or school board hearings.
just for informational purposes,
tend to be
Another
connection with perhaps zoning board hearings
19
The difference largely is
driven --
or may
20
well be driven by the types of decisions that need to
21
be
22
decisionmaker wants to receive,
23
order to make an informed decision on the issue that's
24
before them?
reached.
25
What
is
the
kind
of
information
needs to receive,
the
in
What has to be decided?
The Commission's decision on an issue of
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1
such great magnitude and technical significance will
2
be based on a very highly technical and sophisticated
3
record.
4
support --
5
the decision to grant or deny a license application,
6
will
7
individuals, which will be scrutinized to ensure that
8
individuals have the requisite qualifications to offer
9
that testimony.
And as a result,
the information that will
will be necessary to support any decision,
be
testimony,
evidence
offered
by
expert
10
And that's true of witnesses and evidence,
11
either written or oral testimony, or other documented
12
evidence
13
Energy
14
offered by the NRC staff,
15
other party to the proceeding.
--
in
16
testimony offered by the
support
of
this
Department
application,
of
testimony
testimony offered by any
Who are the participants
who will be a
17
party in the proceeding?
18
clear
19
proceeding.
20
independent responsibility to review the application,
21
and that is
22
any hearing that may be going.
that
23
the
NRC
The
The regulations make it
staff
staff,
will be
a
party
as Bill described,
in
has
the
an
an obligation that exists independent of
It
is
charged
with
reviewing
24
application is submitted by the Department,
25
also
going
very
to
be
responsible
for
whatever
and it
presenting
is
its
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49
1
resolution
2
controversy in a hearing,
of
3
the
There
issues
is
if
also
that
are
one is
held.
an
placed
opportunity
in
for
4
individuals
5
process.
6
intervention
7
requirements are in the Commission's regulations with
8
respect to that.
and others to intervene
You'll
in
hear
the
Dennis
in
talk
licensing
the hearing
a
process
bit
about
and
what
9
There are also particular provisions that
10
relate to the host state, units of local government,
11
affected Indian tribes,
12
etcetera.
One thing that is very clear to all of us
13
at
14
irrespective of where the repository may be located,
15
is
16
novel proceeding,
17
issues that we will revisit that will apply to how
18
people's requests to participate are going to be dealt
19
with.
20
specific about how those rules would be applied.
21
Another key ingredient --
this
point
going
is
that
the
to be an extremely
repository
proceeding,
complex and extremely
and there are going to be a lot of
And I'm not going to even try to get very
22
the next
23
proceeding
24
repository will be conducted by --
25
Safety
slide
--
with
another
respect
we can go on to
key ingredient
to
and Licensing Board.
the
is
licensing
that
of
a
the
before an Atomic
An Atomic
Safety and
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50
1
Licensing
2
comprised of one legal member who will preside,
3
typically two technical members.
Board
4
is
This is
a
three-member
panel.
It's
and
a board that will be drawn from an
5
independent Atomic Safety and Licensing Board panel,
6
which
7
members,
8
them are attorneys and a number of them are engineers
9
with various backgrounds in
I
believe
has currently
some
seven
I believe 15 part-time members.
full-time
A number of
health physics.
They're
10
medical doctors,
11
one with a geology background at this point.
12
environmentalists.
I think there's
One of the other things to bear in mind is
13
they
14
vicinity of where the --
15
site
16
mean right next door.
17
wouldn't attempt to tell
18
would be held.
will
conduct
the
typically
in
the
typically the vicinity of the
of the activity.
19
hearing
Now,
that doesn't necessarily
It's
in
the vicinity.
And I
you today where that hearing
Another thing to bear in
mind is
that if
20
--
21
be very highly contested,
22
parties,
23
possible to do so with regard for the need to conduct
24
a
25
conceivable
we would not be surprised to see a proceeding would
fair
involving a large number of
a very large number of interests.
proceeding
that
to
more
all
than
If
it
participants,
one
board
could
is
it's
be
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51
1
established
2
process.
and more than one hearing
run in
this
3
Next slide, please.
4
The public has a number of opportunities
5
and ways in which it
6
What
7
opportunities independent of how and what forum may be
8
made available by the staff
9
connection with its
10
I'm
going
can participate in the process.
to
describe
--
review.
are
the
public's
Bill Reamer's staff
in
I'm just going to focus
on what may occur in connection with the hearing.
Certainly,
11
free
members
of
the
public
are
12
always
observe
pre-hearing
13
conferences and the hearing process itself.
There may
14
be some limited exception if
15
types of privileged information are being discussed.
16
But as a general rule, the public is invited to attend
17
and observe any of these hearings.
18
to
attend
Members
and
proprietary or if
of the public
can make
other
limited
19
appearance statements.
20
of how you participate,
21
fact,
22
mean,
23
petition
24
attorney, but certainly that's not a prerequisite to
25
participation.
And most of all, irrespective
either in
those ways or,
you're a full party, no lawyer is
if
someone
is
wants
granted,
to
you
become
may
a
choose
required.
party,
to
and
retain
in
I
a
an
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52
a more formal method of
As I mentioned,
1
2
participation
3
Dennis
4
would be started by filing
5
intervene,
6
have full
is
is
as
a
full
party.
And that
going to touch on that
and if
in
more
a petition
that petition is
detail
for leave
What that means,
8
a right to present evidence,
9
and Dennis will get into that in
Finally,
10
then, is
that you'll have
cross examine witnesses,
another
some detail.
way
in
12
organization to represent his or her interest
13
proceeding.
14
that
15
example,
16
represent
17
wish.
There
this is
which
individual can be involved in
are any number
exist which have views
an
to authorize an
in
the
of organizations
on the
repository,
for
and who may be perfectly willing and happy to
you
18
as
an
Now,
individual
I
had
if
that's
mentioned
what
the
appearance statements.
20
so
21
They are typically made in
22
hearing after
23
hearing conference and may not be at a hearing.
understand,
it
is
People
you
limited
19
25
to
granted you would
11
24
-
rights to participate as a party.
7
you
and
--
Limited appearance statements,
are
statements
non-parties.
a special session of the
held, or it
need
by
actually may be a pre
to
understand,
statements that are made are not evidence.
these
They will
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53
1
not
2
evidentiary
3
presiding
4
reaching a decision.
--
those
statements
record.
Atomic
5
will
not
They will
Safety
and
be
part
not be
of
the
used by the
Licensing
Board
in
But individuals are given an opportunity
6
to express whatever views they may have --
7
very
8
particular
9
substantive technical issues.
sincere
and
heartfelt
licensing
The staff
10
sentiments
action,
or
out in
limited appearance
12
those could be written or oral --
13
look at them.
14
contained
15
appropriately taken account of.
16
And if
there,
perhaps
statements
there is
the staff
where
18
raised,
19
They've at least looked into it
20
it's
21
review of the particular application.
22
staff
that
Now,
23
addresses
24
page,
25
as well as a site
a site
previously
the
has
needs
next
--
and,
again,
will
will assure that
information
something
more
but the staff
17
and the
a
technical information
There are occasions
not
opposing
will review the information set
11
in
simple but
known
to
taken that
to
it's
new technical
the
staff
is
into account.
and decided whether
be
addressed
slide contains
for further information
in
three
Our general
its
web
home
where you can find our rules of practice
where you can take a look at what
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54
1
the
2
governs NRC's overall activities
appropriate
3
--
the
pertinent
legislation
that
can be located.
Bill briefly touched on the fact that the
4
statute,
5
provides a three-year period for the overall review of
6
the
7
connection with the possible issuance of instruction
8
authorization.
the
Nuclear
application
9
and
There's
10
ambitious schedule.
11
It's
one in
There is
that if
any
no
Policy
licensing
question
It's
Act
of
1982,
proceeding
it's
an
in
extremely
an extremely tight schedule.
which we're going to work hard to meet.
12
13
Waste
a possible one-year extension of
the Commission requests that of Congress.
14
15
process
16
timeframe
17
practice in
18
that rule.
as
--
19
If
there is
it
might
again,
further detail to the hearing
be
carried
that's
found
10 CFR Part 2,
Now,
out
in
within
our
that
rules
of
in particular Appendix D to
there are four fundamental phases in
20
a repository proceeding.
21
of our licensing cases there are typically three.
22
connection with a repository proceeding,
23
first
24
lot more substantive significance if
25
does in
phase,
I would think that in
most
however,
the pre-license application phase,
In
the
has a
you will than it
other cases.
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55
1
Dennis
2
first,
3
and
4
hearing,
going
to
touch
on
these
--
the
again, being the pre-license application phase,
then
the
pre-hearing
and finally,
5
phase,
the
evidentiary
the appeal.
At this point,
I'd
be happy to take any
6
questions
on
7
turning it
over to Dennis.
8
further about what we've identified here as the appeal
9
process.
the
MR.
10
general
overview
and
--
before
I will come back and talk
CAMERON:
Okay.
If
there
are
11
questions that come up that Dennis is going to cover
12
in
13
But we'll see what the questions are for Larry before
14
we do that.
more detail,
15
16
we'll put those in
Let's
come up front.
17
--
we'll
SARTIN:
18
County.
19
asked you earlier
20
information.
21
more direct than Dennis,
22
back and then we'll
Yes.
MS.
I
go in
the parking lot.
Yes.
Jenney
would like to revisit
Sartin,
a question
Clark
Dennis
with regards to the consideration of
I'm not going to --
I'm going to be much
so forgive my directness.
The fact of the matter is
23
feeling of Clark County is
24
ignore
25
And so getting right to the point,
information
is
the general
that the DOE has chosen to
that has
been provided
to them.
we considered this
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1
to be information that has not been considered.
2
during
3
information.
the
4
5
process,
MR.
environmental
6
we
CHANDLER:
then
I see.
reconsider
And
that
You're referring to
information and how you -
MS.
SARTIN:
7
socioeconomical,
8
issues,
and
as
Transportation,
well
as
safety
and
health
but particularly transportation.
9
MR.
CHANDLER:
I
would
defer
to
10
Reamer.
I'm not going to debate your question,
11
Bill has
the
12
which
13
review.
overall
and
--
14
the
If
responsibility
scope
an
of
the
individual
however,
16
some deficiency in an application,
17
the
18
accident --
19
Dennis will talk about in
in
in
technical
participating,
But if
as well as error in
that may well be the basis
that contention.
Again,
that's
contention
asserting
22
some
it
more detail.
23
addressed in
24
talking
25
difficult
that
may well
there
for me to --
at
is
a
be something
the hearing process.
generalities
for an
something
someone were to raise a
21
kind,
staff's
but
the hearing process and believes there is
application,
20
for the way
is
15
Bill
this
specific
deficiency
that
Again,
point,
it's
of
could be
since we're
sort
of
to be more specific.
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57
1
2
MR.
question in
3
4
that
answer
your
SARTIN:
Well,
I guess I'd
like to ask
you to answer yes or no.
(Laughter.)
6
MR.
CHANDLER:
Since I'm a lawyer,
8
9
Does
conjunction with what Bill said earlier?
MS.
5
7
CAMERON:
I'll
Bill can say yes or no.
talk.
MR.
CAMERON:
MR.
HARNEY:
All
right.
Let's
go
to
Susi.
10
11
I'm a Shoshill Indian.
12
you people,
13
protects the public,
14
law protects the water,
15
My name
is
Corbin Harney.
Very briefly,
I wanted to ask
you have said time and time again the law
Today
I
the law protects the
land,
the
and so on and so forth.
hear you
guys
are
saying
--
it
16
seems like you guys are flipflopping from one end to
17
the
18
paying you wages?
other.
Are you working
19
MR.
CHANDLER:
20
MR.
HARNEY:
for the DOE?
Are they
No.
They must be, because the way
21
you guys talk.
22
the line out there, what DOE has been using, they ask
23
that question time and time again,
24
the United States Government,
25
Under what law do they own it?
Today I'm going to ask you again -
under the
law of
do they own the land?
And today I'm still
a
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1
landowner on that part of the country?
I wish you guys would --
2
3
going to make a decision,
4
for the Federal Government itself.
5
land away from us,
6
are they doing?
7
been told a lie
8
9
if
you --
you are
make a decision right now
Did they took the
or are they just using it,
or what
We don't want to be lied to.
We've
for 500 years as an Indian people.
It
seems
we've been to it's
to me
like every meeting
that
flipflop from one end to the other.
10
Never have they give us a true answer on whatever we
11
ask.
12
you can talk to the DOE and find out for sure,
or the
13
Federal Government itself,
Do you
14
own the land?
I wish you guys would this time.
whoever.
Under what law?
15
Thank you.
16
MR.
you
Congress,
I hope that
CAMERON:
17
others,
18
ownership
19
issue that,
20
licensing proceeding,
21
in
22
can do,
may
want
Larry, you
to
talk
about
issue might be raised in
I take it,
the NRC regulations.
put that in
--
for Corbin and
how
the --
the
land
that's
an
could possibly be raised in
because there is
a
a requirement
That may be the best that you
context.
23
MR.
24
a very, very general answer.
25
question.
CHANDLER:
I can only really give you
Let me answer your first
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59
1
Let
me
first,
before
make one statement.
I
even
2
question,
3
we,
4
that our answers have been consistent.
5
the first
6
not part of the Department
7
We
the NRC,
have
not flipf
question,
are,
8
regulatory agency.
9
of
Energy.
We
as
a
I certainly hope that
lopped.
though,
answer
I
certain
hope
Let me answer
and that is,
no,
we are
of Energy.
Bill
said,
an
independent
We are not run by the Department
are
responsible
applications
for
for
10
reviewing
11
subject to our licensing.
12
seen fit
13
review and license and oversee any repository that may
14
be built by the Department of Energy.
In
activities
independently
which
this case,
are
Congress has
specifically to require us to independently
15
There is
a need under our regulations to
16
assure that our licensees have adequate control over
17
the
18
ownership or other entitlement to the lands.
19
case,
20
federal
21
assure
22
property that it
23
as it
facilities.
That
the Department
agency,
that
it
has
has
would
include
appropriate
In
this
of Energy is
the one who,
the
responsibility
the
initial
requisite
interest
as a
to
in
the
will be using for a repository,
much
would for any other site.
24
MR.
CAMERON:
25
Let's go here,
Okay.
Thank you.
and then we'll go up into
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1
the front row.
2
your name,
Excuse me.
If
you could just give us
please.
3
MS.
GEBHART:
housewife.
And
is
I'm Debby Gebhart,
this
4
a
5
regulates the plant in Henderson that seems to blow up
6
every 10 years?
7
(Laughter.)
8
Blow up the town?
9
MR.
CAMERON:
10
not aware of any facility
11
blow out in
the last
12
MR.
14
didn't get your name.
just
Okay.
extent
15
MS.
GEBHART:
16
MR.
CHANDLER:
I'm
not
Ms.
Debby,
proposition,
do
regulate
18
facilities.
There
19
exceptions
20
Reorganization
21
There are only very few others.
22
is
are
to that that
We do not regulate
--
I'm sorry.
I
Debby.
17
only
we,
as
Department
very
are laid out
Repository
a general
of
narrowly
is
in
one
Energy
limited
the Energy
of
those.
Department of Energy
otherwise self-regulated.
23
MR.
24
We're going to go to Mr.
25
that
that we've licensed that's
to the
Act.
agency
I certainly hope not.
CHANDLER:
--
me,
same
10 years.
13
let
the
and I'm
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thanks.
McGowan,
Abby,
and that gentleman back there.
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1
MR.
McGOWAN:
I have a compound statement
2
and question, approximately one and a half minutes,
3
you can spare that much time.
4
along.
5
It's
time
clearly
I'll
everybody
if
try to hasten
in
this
assembly
6
understood
7
ratified in 1863,
approximately 80-plus years prior to
8
the
of
9
nuclear material and nuclear waste.
achievement
the
Treaty
manmade,
of
Ruby Valley
artificially
was
produced
10
There was no provision in the Ruby Valley
11
Treaty for the use of any land for nuclear waste or
12
testing or anything you are talking-about.
13
you get the time in your demanding schedule, you might
14
respond
15
uncharacteristic.
with
16
the
My
actual
name
is
truth,
Tom
if
that's
McGowan,
So when
not
Las
too
Vegas
17
resident.
The current population of southern Nevada
18
is
19
capacity of this NRC meeting premises is approximately
20
50
21
one/26,000th of the total population of the southern
22
Nevada greater regional area.
approximately 1.3 million people,
people,
23
including
No
federal
you,
agency
and the seating
which
or other
equates
to
entity has
24
other previously attempted to convey edu/info material
25
pertinent
to
a
non-existent
and
as
yet
non-NRC
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1
license-approved or applied for underground repository
2
for the storage of high-level nuclear waste at Yucca
3
Mountain,
Nevada,
4
And
or elsewhere nationally.
no
entity
has
ever
previously
5
attempted
6
participant open hearing process on such a volumetric
7
scale
8
license-applied and approved repository.
to
conduct
regarding
9
any
such
Therefore,
the
General
a
fully-informed
non-existent
public
and
non-NRC
directed exactly at the Office
10
of
11
precisely
12
experience or other factual and reasonable basis does
13
the NRC's Office of General Counsel propose,
14
actually intend to formulate and implement --
15
needs to be done through successful completion --
16
such
17
process,
18
process
19
public participation in
20
1.3
21
additional population influx, as well as their
22.
progeny,
23
reasonably foreseeable term whatsoever?
how
and
historically
and
current
any
or
documentable
the
in
much less
and that
any
edu/info
public
eminent
toto,
real-world
public
bring an open
with
southern
within
title
on what
then to
Please
official
individually
unprecedented
consistent
24
25
Counsel,
hearing
principle
of
the democratic process by all
Nevada
residents
realistically
identify
yourself
and
ensuing
projected
by
any
name
as
and
and respond on the public record of the
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1
meeting minutes
2
NRS 241
3
submitted
4
minutes.
and the Nevada
in
in
compliance
Open Meeting
written
text
for
I expect to see it.
5
6
and proceedings
MR.
CAMERON:
MR.
CHANDLER:
Law.
with
This
inclusion
in
is
your
Thank you.
Thank
you very much,
Mr.
McGowan.
7
8
simple
response,
9
perform
quite
an independent
Reamer
response
frankly.
review
The
of
the
a
will
applications.
11
competence
12
review.
That review will be fully documented
13
publicly
available
14
subject to hearing.
If
expertise
earlier
to
document.
people
have
the
perform
That
a
the
staff's
necessary
review
basis
for
16
that and you wish to participate
17
process,
18
record
19
submitted by the Department
20
Regulatory
Commission
21
participants
in
22
objective decision will be prepared,
23
support
24
issuance with conditions of a permit.
in
very
staff
Bill
and
described
is
10
15
has
The
in
will
25
the
an open hearing
contain
Energy,
staff,
and
of
CAMERON:
or
the
Thank
A
evidence
the
Nuclear
any
other
that process from which a
issuance
MR.
of
be
challenging
they will have an opportunity to do that.
will be created which will
a
reasoned,
which will either
denial
you.
of
And
or
I
the
think
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1
we'll
maybe
2
particular Nevada statute that you mentioned.
have
more
information
about
3
MR.
McGOWAN:
Thank you very much.
4
MR.
CAMERON:
All right.
5
MS.
JOHNSON:
6
I
have
7
just
8
include the NRC staff,
9
is
a
Abby Johnson?
Abby Johnson, Eureka County.
question on your slide 20.
physically
that
representatives
You indicated
of
the
NRC
and that one of their
staff
functions
to present resolution of issues.
And I guess I have a half a comment and a
10
11
half a question.
12
of feedback that there is
13
who do you really work for,
14
that resolving the issues means getting to yes,
and
15
that there
is
yes
16
and one is
no.
17
And the half a comment is
here about who are you guys,
comes
And how does
staff
19
the advantage of the applicant?
20
to prove to us that there is
21
do other than that?
MR.
23
answer
24'
The process
25
iterative
--
always to
And what can you do
anything that you would
Okay.
Let
me
can
--
I
you go on to the next question?
and it
process.
the NRC
--
so that they aren't
CHANDLER:
that before
and one is
the NRC resolve
18
22
from our concern
really two ways to go,
resolve issues,
the kind
is
It's
a very open process
--
is
an
not unique to the licensing
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1
of the repository.
2
It's
a
process
the
staff
uses
3
connection with all
4
it
has to do with licensing of a reactor facility,
5
it
has
6
application.
7
will review an application that's
to
licensing activities
do with review of
8
9
of its
The process is
a
initial
acceptance
10
fundamentally it
11
it
12
through its
13
the
14
resolution is
needs to have.
to
which the staff
make
sure
that
goes more indepth
review process, typically it
15
there is
of the information that
But as the staff
shortcomings,
if
licensing
initially,
review
contains all
if
submitted.
As Bill described it
an
--
materials
one in
in
deficiencies,
will identify
questions
on which
required.
And those questions are transmitted back
16
to
17
Department
18
responsible
19
information to allow the staff
an
applicant.
In
of Energy.
20
this
The
case,
it
Department
would
of
for responding and providing
That
has
an
the
Energy is
sufficient
to complete its
unfortunate
be
review.
appearance,
I
21
gather.
22
witnesses.
23
the unfortunate impression that we are speaking with
24
one voice,
25
I
can understand
But it
and that's
that,
over
has the unfortunate
time,
--
it
having
creates
not true.
We will have
gone
through
a process
of
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1
objective,
substantive questioning of an application
2
to
that,
3
information necessary, and that, in fact, demonstrates
4
compliance with our requirements.
assure
5
in
fact,
it
Only then would
provides
the
staff
all
decide
6
yes,
it's
acceptable to grant such a license,
7
that
it's
not.
8
which the staff has said,
9
are examples.
10
I'll
Now,
recently
give
you
"No,
it's
not."
the staff
11
thing
12
orders of magnitude difference in
13
the
14
application for a particular device.
15
of radiation device.
recently
16
It
is
one
which
denied
was denied.
a
hearing on it,
18
was not issued.
19
there are reactor facilities
20
and licenses were never granted.
and the staff
Yes,
in
there
and the first
is
levels
of
terms of scale.
materials
It
But
license
was some kind
The license
In terms of larger scale facilities,
You
go
was
the
back
which were applied for,
in
time
in
late
'60s,
believe
23
facility
24
Angeles.
25
Department of Water and Power.
in
or, no,
--
prevailed.
22
it
that,
The applicant requested a
17
21
the
you say there are instances
Just
staff
of
mid to
--
you
know,
there
was
I
a
California that was located south of Los
It
was
applied
for
by
the
Los
Angeles
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1
I think the facility's
name was Malibu.
2
It
3
questions raised about the adequacy of its
4
ability
5
instance that were never satisfactorily
was
never
built,
because
there
to withstand earthquakes
6
It
was in
completed.
the
in
8
authorize construction of that facility.
license
was
There was a facility
it
was --
11
late
12
Facility,
13
be located in
14
--
15
Jersey.
proposed
or early '70s
--
Jersey --
Service
Electric
and
and it
18
and
19
instance,
20
a position to fully address all
forth with questions
facility.
23
--
24
location
as
Island
proposed to
Gas
of
New
process of going back
of
the
applicant
decided that it
a
Company
in
that
would not be in
of the questions.
result,
they
resited
the
There was a license issued but the facility
those
25
was the very
with this location,
through the iterative
And
to
New Jersey by the New Jersey
17
21
was
I believe
--
for the New Volt
There were problems
the utility
It
issued
a nuclear powerplant located --
16
22
never
you whether it
Public
--
that particular
I couldn't tell
'60s
design and
hearing process.
never
10
technical
answered.
7
9
A
were
facilities
--
had
a
completely
different
Hope Creek.
In
the
'80s,
we've
seen
any
number
of
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68
1
instances
2
very significant questions about the construction, the
3
adequacy of construction, quality assurance applied to
4
the construction of large nuclear facilities.
5
in
which
Diablo
6
issued
7
issuance
8
that
9
discovered in
10
in
1981,
the
the Commission has
Canyon
and
an operating
almost
Commission
license
had
because
raised very,
on
the
heels
issued an order
of
deficiencies
the design of that
facility
license
of
its
suspending
that
--
were
design
and construction of the facility.
It
11
took several years and very significant
12
financial as well as technical review by the applicant
13
before that facility
14
15
The
1970.
I'd
was allowed to resume operation.
Watts
Bar
facility
was
started
in
be happy to go on.
16
MS.
17
(Laughter.)
18
And my second, hopefully shorter, question
19
is
20
opportunities.
--
on
slide
JOHNSON:
number
21
MR.
CHANDLER:
22
MS.
JOHNSON:
I think you can stop.
22,
you
talk
about
public
Yes.
Observing
23
conferences and evidentiary hearings.
24
in
pre-hearing
Would that be
the vicinity of the proposed repository as well?
25
MR.
CHANDLER:
Yes.
Yes.
I mean,
I
-
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the general expectation is
that hearings are conducted
2
in
3
take place.
4
that was a shorter answer.
5
MR.
the vicinity of where the proposed activity
would
And those sessions would be held at -
CAMERON:
Okay.
We're going to go to
6
this gentleman and back here,
7
less direct Dennis Bechtel again.
8
(Laughter.)
9
MR.
PERNA:
and then to the more -
My name is
Frank Perna.
10
the DOE and the NRC legal staff
11
Valley
12
legally able to be on the Yucca Mountain site?
13
there is
Treaty
to
see
if
some confusion,
14
the
study the 1863 Ruby
Federal
wondering if
Government
is
Since
they own it.
And I have another question.
Is
nuclear
15
power safe,
clean,
16
available?
This statement was made by Vice President
17
Cheney.
18
19
MR.
and is
Will
CAMERON:
there a lot of fuel readily
I think that's
definitely a
parking lot question.
20
(Laughter.)
21
Could you do the treaty with Ruby Valley,
22
please?
23
MR.
CHANDLER:
I haven't,
in
particular,
24
looked at that treaty to determine whether it
25
the requisite control at this point.
provides
At this stage,
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I would expect
2
because
3
Department of Energy attorneys have assured themselves
4
that
5
property thereon to construct the facility
6
are proposing or they may propose to construct.
I
they
--
and,
haven't
have
the
is
CAMERON:
8
MS.
SARTIN:
Nuclear Waste Division,
my conjecture,
personally,
requisite
MR.
10
this
spoken
7
9
see,
that
entitlement
Okay.
the
to
the
that they
Let's go back here.
Jenney Sartin, Clark County,
the more direct
half of the
team.
11
The question
I
have
12
Dennis,
13
for me.
14
Those were your exact words,
15
MR.
CHANDLER:
16
MS.
SARTIN:
I couldn't resist,
--
and
I'm sorry
-
because you opened the door
You said that this is
a very open process.
correct?
Yes.
Then, could you tell
me,
sir,
17
how many more closed meetings are you holding with the
18
DOE
19
attend?
in
which
20
other parties
MR.
CHANDLER:
22
MS.
SARTIN:
23
MR.
CAMERON:
21
will
not be
allowed
to
I'm not aware of any closed
meetings.
Okay.
That's probably a question
24
that needs to be answered or at least the process to
25
be able to --
explained.
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can you do that for
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v
71
1
us?
2
MR.
REAMER:
meetings.
Our meetings
with DOE are
3
open
4
meeting that has occurred that I'm not aware of,
5
something --
6
be in
8
I
--
there
is
obviously
a
or
suggest that
CHANDLER:
-
Well,
then,
it
wasn't
closed.
MS.
SARTIN:
MR.
CAMERON:
I was
the one actually who
went.
11
12
So I'd
MR.
9
10
guess
some information that you have that may
error.
7
I
Well,
let's
ask Dennis
to
provide some more information.
13
MR.
BECHTEL:
Yes.
Dennis Bechtel.
I
14
think what Jenney has referred to is
15
a
16
were --
17
questions between the parties,
18
apparently clarify positions the NRC and/or DOE will
19
caucus
20
provide an answer or a resolution.
little
bit
concerned about
they were discussions
on
21
an
issue,
But,
and
missing is
23
not understand,
24
particular decision.
and I am
--
too,
that
there
issues or some of the
and then in
then
unfortunately,
22
25
this,
the
come
the
back
order to
and
link
then
that's
the public who was at the meeting who may
you know,
Now,
I know it
the process that led to the
might be hard to understand
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this
2
work issues out before you go back to the public.
3
think because the issue is
4
it
5
meetings like that.
process,
leads to suspicions,
6
7
but that's
you know, you try to
so controversial,
I guess,
you know,
I
you know,
that --
at
So,
and I know you had another question,
MR.
CAMERON:
MR.
REAMER:
-
8
9
and I don't even --
Right.
Let's hear what Bill
has to say.
10
Okay.
Dennis, thanks for the
11
clarification.
12
we,
13
that were public meetings that are noticed and held
14
with DOE,
15
closed caucus meetings.
16
contractor
17
position.
If
the NRC staff,
18
you're referring to caucuses that
hold in
connection with meetings
there are no DOE people who are
staff
people
Those
who
in
those
are just NRC and NRC
are
discussing
their
After the meeting and we state a position,
19
all
20
be available to members of the public to understand.
21
If
22
the position we do,
23
so that you can get that question answered.
of the reasons that we used to support that should
there is
24
25
a question you have about a --
MS.
that meeting is
SARTIN:
in
Will we get
why we hold
part designed
copies of
the
transcripts for a caucus meeting?
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73
1
MR.
REAMER:
The
caucus meetings are
2
only NRC staff
3
there are no transcripts that are kept.
people are in
the caucus meeting,
4
MS.
SARTIN:
For DOE people and -
5
MR.
REAMER:
There are no DOE people
6
our caucus meetings.
7
MR.
8
slide
9
participants.
number
BECHTEL:
20,
about
your
categories
of
As you're aware, because of the Nuclear
11
categories
12
effective use of local government.
in
effect.
there are three different
DOE
named
10
And I think we feel we're --
counties
as
the reason we
14
were named is
15
you know,
16
ought to think of ourselves as participants.
17
considered participants?
18
of the --
19
named by DOE as affected parties --
20
is
because of the concerns about impacts,
to each of the counties.
we are identified
But I
think we
Are we
I guess because of the fact
in
the law and --
rather,
and perhaps.Dennis
going to address this.
21
But I'd
just,
like to get some clarification
on
are we participants?
23
24
in
I have a question about your
Waste Policy Amendments Act,
22
and
I can assure you of that.
10
13
-
MR.
CHANDLER:
MR.
CAMERON:
Dennis
is
going to talk
about that.
25
Do you want to say anything
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1
about it?
We're going to mark it
2
status of AULGs in
3
Okay.
We'll take a couple more questions,
and then we'll take a break,
5
up there.
MS.
7
County
8
question
9
technical
is,
and so we can get Dennis
SHANKLE:
Nuclear
-
hearing.
4
6
down for Dennis
Judy Shankle
Projects
we've
gone
Office.
through
from Monroe
Basically,
many of
these
my
key
issue meetings where DOE will come up with
10
something,
your scientists
may not agree with.
11
seems to be a continual process where DOE will correct
12
what was brought up before.
13.
If
So it
DOE gets to the licensing process and
14
you all
15
requirements,
and so forth, would they be denied the
16
applicant
would
17
repository,
18
they
19
application?
find that they are lacking some part of the
--
be
denied
to
build
this
or would this be a continuing process if
didn't
20
they
MR.
need
some
CHANDLER:
part
of
the
Let me see if
licensing
I can phrase
21
it.
You're suggesting that we would be at the hearing
22
stage,
23
believes exists with respect to the application.
24
is,
25
compliance with all
although there is
a deficiency that the staff
the application doesn't,
in
our view,
That
demonstrate
of our requirements.
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1
If
DOE wished to continue,
it
certainly
2
would have an opportunity to satisfy a board,
3
and satisfy
4
views were on the deficiency,
5
sufficient application that should be granted.
6
a
board that,
The staff
despite what the
in
their
to try
staff's
view it
would present its
was a
position with
7
respect
8
eventually the other parties would be heard on that as
9
well, and a decision on that matter would be issued by
10
to the deficiency
in
the
application.
And
the board.
The board will focus and will address the
11
12
matters and the controversial
13
by the parties,
14
MR.
issues that are raised
and you'll hear that talked about.
CAMERON:
I think
Judy,
--
was part
of
15
your question also,
16
deficiency,
17
deficiency, correct the license application during the
18
hearing?
19
could
MR.
could the -the
Department
CHANDLER:
Yes.
if
there was such a
then correct
I
think
they
that
--
I
20
can't imagine a situation where they would get to that
21
stage that we're in
22
of an issue still
23
MR.
CAMERON:
24
MR.
CHANDLER:
25
know,
fill
a hearing process with that type
lingering.
some void in
Yes,
But yes.
they
They could correct or, you
the application,
so long as it
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1
becomes part of the record of the proceeding and all
2
of the parties have an opportunity to consider it.
3
4
MR.
CAMERON:
more about that later.
5
Okay.
Steve?
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
6
the
7
also the
8
that
9
Shoshonis have a claim that is
10
Maybe we'll hear some
I want to come back to
issue of the dispute over the treaty rights and
land.
you're
I
an
want to come at
attorney
for
it
the
acknowledging
NRC.
at least --
And
the
at the very
least recognized as a claim controversy.
11
The
Department
that
it's
of
Energy
does
not
12
acknowledge
13
Regulatory Commission,
14
the
15
requirement that the Department approve ownership and
16
control of the land for the repository.
existing rule
17
18
get to where it
19
one way or another in
20
MR.
controversy.
The
in
CHANDLER:
And there's
no --
22
both technical matters and legal matters.
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
Shoshoni
25
party.
a
this licensing proceeding?
no question that issues in
the
is
fact, considered and ruled upon
there's
24
there
the Shoshoni claim controversy
21
23
Nuclear
regardless of whether you take
or the proposed rule,
How does
is,
a
are going
I mean,
a hearing can raise
Well,
to be able
it's
to
unlikely that
qualify as
a
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77
1
MR.
2
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
CHANDLER:
3
it's
4.
someone else raising it
unlikely.
5
6
Well,
let's
assume that
Without them there raising that,
MR.
as a contention
CHANDLER:
It
or
-
wouldn't be before the
board.
7
8
I don't know.
AUDIENCE
MEMBER:
--
would
it
ever
be
considered?
9
MR.
CHANDLER:
It
would not be an issue
10
before the board,
and the board will not decide the
11
matter.
I
12
independent responsibility to review the entirety of
13
the application
14
the requirements.
But
15
as
said
before,
to assure that it
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
16
I'm getting at.
17
acknowledge
18
CHANDLER:
the issue.
20
safety evaluation report,
The staff
will
-
will deal with
23
with
24
pretty good possibility that it
25
a meeting.
Okay.
But there's
assured that the staff
overall
in
a
I would expect.
process by which it's
its
an
what
will deal with the issue
22
in
And that's
The staff
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
it
has
complies with all
Okay.
as a matter of
19
21
staff
How do we know that the staff
that,
MR.
the
safety
no
will deal
evaluation,
with
a
would never come up in
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1
MR.
that,
CHANDLER:
you know,
No,
I'm not
willing
to
2
accept
3
issue of the legal sufficiency,
4
of the Department of Energy to control this
5
land, other parties who can develop standing can raise
6
the issue.
7
Other
8
issues.
I mean,
individuals
9
it's
can
It's
hypothesis.
not
seek
--
contention is
11
are
12
Dennis'
13
to talk more.
14
the standing --
15
MR.
CAMERON:
16
MR.
CHANDLER:
to
the
raise
piece of
any number
ability
--
to
of
raise
a
I'm going to talk about
and he ought
But you're not confined to the scope of
of your standing.
an issue regarding
MR.
So you
-
So other people can raise
-
CAMERON:
Well,
19
important for people to understand.
20
may want to go over that again.
I
think
And,
that's
Dennis,
Let's take one more question,
you
and let's
take a break.
23
24
a real
the legal entitlement
stuff, and I'm talking too much,
21
is
not confined to the basis upon which you
trying to establish
18
22
it
not limited to the Shoshonis.
10
17
If
MR.
CHANDLER:
MR.
HARNEY:
Corbin, did you want to say
something?
25
Okay.
In
the treaty
--
the
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1
law of the land --
2
treaty?
3
is
that the law of the land,
the
MR.
CHANDLER:
5
MR.
HARNEY:
Okay.
6
recognize that,
because
it's
7
talk about
how law works,
8
instead of making your own rules or regulations that
9
you won't abide by.
4
The treaty is
a part of the
law.
law,
MR.
10
CAMERON:
Okay.
You guys better
very important
let's
Okay.
--
if
we
abide by that,
Thank you all.
We're
11
going to go into some specifics on the hearing process
12
next with Dennis,
13
back around five after three --
14
stretch your legs and get some fresh air.
but first
we'll take a break.
Be
give you 15 minutes to
Thank you.
15
(Whereupon,
16
foregoing matter went off the record at
17
2:50 p.m.
18
3:10 p.m.)
19
MR.
20
ready?
21
proceedings
in
the
and went back on the record at
CAMERON:
All right.
the
Well,
Okay.
let's
Dennis,
are
you
go.
We have some questions.
We're next going
22
to go to Dennis Dambly, who is
23
specifics of the hearing process.
24
that we come back to some of these questions that were
25
raised earlier,
going to go through the
And we'll make sure
so we close those out.
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1
So,
Dennis,
2
MR.
DAMBLY:
3
close
4
Good.
enough
5
in
here
go ahead.
All
right.
that you all
My name is
Dennis Dambly,
mentioned previously it
7
responsible
8
there be a hearing on a repository.
9
What I'd
detail on the specifics
11
would
12
repository.
13
Yes?
who would be
NRC
staff,
like to cover is
10
be applied
the
talking
and as has been
would be my staff
representing
I
can hear?
6
for
Am
a
should
little
more
of the hearing process that
to any application
for
a
geologic
I do want to indicate that the rules that
14
will be followed are not new,
15
I'll
16
rules
17
Commission
in
18
process.
It's
19
specifically,
20
language that deals with the licensing support.
be getting to fairly
with one exception that
quickly.
They are the same
that have been followed for many years by the
21
licensing
not
with
Okay.
reactors.
new
the
rules
exception
The first
22
like to deal with is
23
I was looking at a slide,
24
going --
25
she'll
fix
The
first
It's
that
of
not
were
the
a
new
made
up
Subpart
J
two slides that I would
to give you an overall timeline.
it.
and I
It's
slide
saw the right side
magic.
deals with
things
that
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1
happen before DOE files
2
rules
3
published I
4
dealing
5
compliance with our licensing support network, DOE has
6
to certify --
7
the
8
before they file
that
have
an application.
recently
been
think next week in
with
the
they put all
licensing
9
timing
support
Under the new
adopted
and will
the Federal
for
Register
certification,
of their
network,
for
documents online,
at
least
six months
an application with the agency.
So six months before they can send in
10
application,
11
available
12
potential parties.
all
an
of their documents have to be up and
to
13
be
the
public,
all
the
parties,
One month after they do that,
and
the NRC has
14
to have all
15
licensing support network.
16
after
DOE certifies
17
other
parties
18
interested in being a party in
19
would
20
documents up as part of the licensing support network.
21
And I'll
have
its
to
documents up and online as part of the
all
or
Three months or 90
of its
potential
certify
documents are up,
parties,
that
So
this
is
23
application would come in,
24
the
25
already
hearing
timeline,
talked
about
they put
the
who
is
all
of
more in
their
a minute.
timeline
before
an
and only what I would call
because
the
anyone
any
the repository hearing
talk about that a little
22
days
Bill
whole
and
Larry
timeline
of
have
going
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1
through
2
steps.
the
3
President
and
the
We're talking if
4
and DOE decides to file
5
happens before they file
6
hearing process.
7
Congress
and
the Congress is
an application,
it
those
approved
this is
what
that would be part of the
And the next slide
deals with
--
actually,
--
deal with
8
I guess it's
9
the more traditional timelines that would apply to a
the next two slides
to any NRC formal hearing.
--
10
--
11
subpart or Part 2,
12
that has a very detailed schedule.
13
in
14
docket
15
take place.
terms
of
number
I
But there is
of
have
days
And it's
from
the
that a lot of
distilled
them
ones,
18
approximate dates on the second slide.
19
we're doing just for a day,
20
Appendix D.
21
important
ones,
The next slide
22
the appendix,
23
forth in
24
you or me much
25
such,
and you'll
so it
that
set out
date
that
we
things have
to
down
17
the
a specific
Appendix D, that Larry talked about
an application
16
okay
to
see
the
big
there are
The first
one
comes right off of
we'll
deal with --
in
as I said, things are specifically set
numbers of days.
to say it's
so we made it
But it's
not going to help
262 days
from such and
approximately so many months,
so
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1
you have an idea of what the timeline is.
2
Okay.
The first
thing --
when DOE --
as
3
Bill has said, if
4
the
5
Once they do that, they would publish a public notice
6
of a hearing.
7
you want to intervene.
8
come in,
staff
has
90
days
to
do
an acceptance
From that period,
file
9
and when they submit an application,
Within
100
you have 30 days if
That's the first
your petition,
review.
thing --
to
meet the requirements.
days,
there's
a
pre-hearing
10
conference,
11
more about that,
12
that make a decision on who gets to intervene and be
13
a party and who doesn't,
and what contentions would be
14
admitted and which aren't.
And I will talk to that.
15
and at that conference the Board will talk
would consider,
All of these -time
and ultimately after
I just want to give you a
16
general
17
determination
who
18
discovery.
want to talk to you about
19
Look at the next -- the safety evaluation report that
20
the staff
21
the application is
22
of days,
I
25
that,
and I'll
if
Once
parties
docketed.
but 18 months is
It's
now,
the
here.
are
we
there's
a
get
into
discovery.
does will be completed about 18 months after
23
24
sequence
There's,
the approximate date.
important -mention it
again, a number
maybe I'll
again --
you want to intervene,
mention this
to understand from
you can't wait for the
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1
staff
to complete
2
you want to contest.
3
after
4
is
review before you decide what
As you can see, you have 30 days
the notice to file
your petition.
not going to be done with its
5
So if
6
be a
7
that.
little
days.
The hearing is
two
years
under
the
approximately
11
docketed,
12
after
13
decision --
14
a statutory requirement.
two
with
that,
15
years
an
initial
you're going to
But we'll talk about
now scheduled to begin in
present
10
And the staff
review for 18 months.
you wait 18 months,
late on 30
8
9
its
appendix
after
an
decision
schedule,
application
about
32
and the Commission's decision -three years after the notice.
Now
to
talk about
the
is
months
initial
And that's
specific
phases.
16
This is
17
NRC precedent for a large,
18
did not have,
19
pre-license
20
part of the process now that deals with things that
21
will happen when we receive an application.
the phase that is
22
really unique
in
complex hearing.
prior to this,
terms of
We really
a pre-application
application phase.
There
is
--
a
a specific
The pre-application license phase starts
23
30 days after
24
the President.
25
talking
here
DOE submits its
And in
the
site
that phase,
recommendation to
again, we're really
licensing support
network.
And I
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1
know
2
everybody about what the licensing support network is.
the
staff
3
was
out
Basically,
here
it's
last
year
talking
a compilation
to
online of
4
everybody's documentary material that has to do with
5
the proposed Yucca Mountain site.
6
that
7
engineering drawings,
8
into the licensing support network.
DOE has,
9
all
of
All of the records
their documents,
all
same with NRC,
--
10
same with parties, or potential parties --
11
everything
12
facilitate
13
access
14
intervenor,
15
discovery phase.
and
available
the process.
to
all
that
got
16
their
anything like that has to be put
And the purpose of that
open
of
that
Normally,
material
intervenor
was
to make
done
to
one would not get
until
status
is
you
became
and got
an
into the
And much of the discovery phase would be
17
focused
18
documents you've got on this issue.
19
documents
you
20
necessary
in
21
established
22
which is
23
everybody.
on requesting
have
this
the
on
documents.
that
proceeding,
licensing
24
There
25
application phase,
is
also
me
all
the
Give me all
the
issue.
That
because
support
going to have that all
Give
won't
we will
network,
or
be
have
LSN,
there and available to
in
the
the second bullet that's
pre-license
up there,
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1
there will be a judge appointed from the Atomic Safety
2
and Licensing Board to hear disputes about what's in
3
or not in
the licensing support network.
4
As a quick example of the kinds of things,
5
suppose NRC or DOE certified
6
our requirements.
7
with its
8
Yucca Mountain,
9
support
10
that we had complied with
Say, NRC certified
requirements,
put all
that we complied
of those documents on
proposed repository,
network.
in
And you checked it
have 15 documents in
a
licensing
out,
and they
there.
You would have the right to go to the pre
11
12
license application presiding officer and say, "Excuse
13
me,
14
Maybe 15,000,
15
an order.
Judge,
16
but
I
don't think
but 15 is
15
is
a
good number.
not the right number.
Issue
Tell them to put the rest of the stuff in."
And
that
could
be
done
by
potential
17
parties.
18
could come forward say,
19
want to raise that issue."
20
of the issues pertaining at this phase that a --
21
presiding officer would deal with would be issues of
22
privilege.
23
You won't even have party status.
Somebody
Anybody
"I'm a potential party, and I
would
I would expect that much
say,
in
the
the
licensing
24
support network, will you have to put on bibliographic
25
data, headers if
you will, to identify documents which
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1
you
say,
"I'm
2
privileged"
3
proprietary information,
4
I
5
safeguards information,
not
--
guess
online
attorney-client
there
6
putting
could
You start
because
they're
privilege,
and could be -be
classified
contains
potentially,
information,
things like that.
to identify the documents,
and
7
other parties or potential parties could come to the
8
judge
9
privilege,"
and
say,
"I
don't
think
those
are
properly
and a judge would then make a ruling and
10
could order that they be made available to everybody,
11
could issue an order that says,
12
to sign some kind of an agreement
13
condition access to certain things, but it's
14
this phase.
15
you know,
And you wouldn't have
you've got
for access,
could
all
up to
this phase
in
any
16
other proceeding.
17
things before there's an even an application.
This is
18
special to a repository proceeding,
done to
19
facilitate
20
record for everybody to have access to it.
We don't have a judge that rules on
getting
the
21
Now,
22
There's
in
information
the --
a
and it's
out
next one,
list
of
duties
potential
24
regard to the licensing support network.
25
We've
already
that
NRC or DOE have
covered
on
the
please.
23
parties or the
and
this
to do
slide.
any
in
I'm
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88
1
sorry.
Next one.
2
And they're
3
that you would have to do.
4
one after
listed
on here,
the
things
The important slide is
the
this one.
5
If
hearing
you want to be granted party status in
6
the
7
complied
8
licensing support network.
9
to participate in
itself,
timely
you have
with
to
the
have
substantially
requirements
So if
the hearing,
for
the
you think you want
you want to become an
10
intervenor,
11
of DOE certifying that they have up and online as part
12
of
13
material,
14
are some other hurdles you would have to g.o through.
the
you have to make sure that within 90 days
licensing
support
network
that you've got yours up.
15
So
if
you
think
all
of
Otherwise,
you're
going
their
there
to
be
16
interested in being involved,
17
the time --
and it
18
documents.
There's an awful lot of people who maybe
19
want to get involved, and the documents that they will
20
say that
21
online.
22
make sure that you take
may not be that there's that many
they will use may be
stuff
that
DOE puts
Could be the stuff that NRC puts online.
23
It
may be two or three or four reports that you have,
24
but it's
25
DOE or NRC would have to put everything on there,
only the material that you intend to use, not
but
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89
1
for
2
hearing
3
either
4
document that they're going to put on.
5
Now we'll get
you
--
stuff
you
that
would
you would plan to use
have
to
put
online
a DOE or an NRC document
if
in
it's
any
not
or somebody else's
into the
traditional
pre
6
hearing
7
using since its
8
from the Atomic Energy Commission and really applied
9
to proceedings from 40 or 50 years ago.
activities
10
that
are
--
again,
NRC
been
inception, and I'm sure were passed on
The
first
thing
--
and
everybody
11
mentioned
12
mentioned it
13
and an opportunity to intervene published.
14
published in
15
on the NRC website.
it,
16
has
Bill
--
has
mentioned
it,
Larry
has
has
there will be a notice of the hearing
the Federal Register.
It
It
will be
will be placed
There will be press releases.
I'm sure Bill and his staff
will make sure
17
that
18
local media.
19
interested you won't know that an application has been
20
received and docketed.
it's
21
provided
to all
There is
the counties,
virtually
At that point,
23
into a little
24
There
25
Board established at that time,
will
bit
also
intervene,
and we'll
more about what that is
be
you're
they will explain what you
need
to petition to
of the
no way that if
22
to do
all
an Atomic
Safety
in
and
get
a second.
Licensing
and from then on they
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90
1
are
in
2
judge panel.
control of the hearing process with a
3
They will hold pre-hearing
three
conferences.
4
One of the first
5
intervene and who doesn't.
They'll set up discovery
6
schedules,
sure
7
with the schedules that are set forth in
timelines,
8
9
ones will be to decide who gets to
But
make
going
now
back
everybody
to
complies
Appendix D.
the
notice
of
receipt of an application.
The important thing there
10
is
file
11
that's
12
party in
13
then you've got
14
late,
you've
got
30
days
published if
to
15
the
date
you want to intervene
the proceeding.
and it's
from
If
additional
and be a
you miss the
hurdles
that
30 days,
to get
admitted
possible you might not get in.
But the thing to remember,
30
days
is
a
16
short time.
17
the staff
18
raised you have to base those on DOE's application.
19
You
20
won't be done in
It's
is
also --
done.
So if
don't base your
21
the 30 days will be before
you have
issues
issues you want
on NRC's
review.
That
that 30-day period.
And while 30 days is
short, remember what
22
we talked about a
23
all
24
submit the application, and that would be three months
25
before
little
while ago,
DOE has to have
of their documents online six months before they
--
there would be an additional three months
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91
1
before it's
2
docketed.
So really nine months before this notice
3
would come
4
available to anybody.
5
out DOE's material
So
you
can
should be online and
start,
if
you're
seriously
6
interested in
intervening in
7
time to start
preparing the issues you want resolved,
8
start
9
NRC documents will be on there I
looking in
a proceeding,
that's
the
the licensing support network.
The
guess eight months
10
before,
11
states and the local government will have theirs up
12
there.
13
this notice goes out.
and other people are interested.
At that point,
14
it
months before they submit,
16
If
17
not suggesting they do
18
they did it
19
it
11 months before,
20
it
nine months before.
21
when DOE certifies.
that's
states
--
the six
at least six months.
DOE wants to submit the stuff a year before --
22
23
would be six months before
And, rather, those first
15
I'm sure the
--
but if
12 months before,
they did,
I'm
then if
the NRC would have to do
and other people would have to do
How do --
Those dates are all
did somebody say,
based on
"How do you
know that?"
24
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
25
MR.
DAMBLY:
Yes.
They will
certify,
and we
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92
1
will
2
certification,
and that other people have to prepare
3
to do theirs.
But there won't be any secrets in
4
of this stuff in
5
Yes,
6
MR.
let
the
world
know
that
DOE
has
made
its
any
terms of timing.
sir?
McCRACKEN:
Thank you.
My name
is
7
Ralph McCracken.
I'm about 15 kilometers from Yucca
8
Mountain Range.
It
9
little
seems to me that
more appropriate
in
it
would be a
terms of the announcement
10
that you would make,
11
me.
12
submissions should be announced with as much gusto as
13.
you plan for the initiation
The
14
date
it
that
MR.
should be made with --
the
DOE
you're saying is
16
should go.
If
MR.
McCRACKEN:
18
MR.
DAMBLY:
19
MR.
submitting all
21
submitted six months in
23
I
understand you,
what
Okay.
What date are you When
of their information,
advance
DAMBLY:
we
No.
McCRACKEN:
20
MR.
their
when DOE submits an application,
17
22
making
of your 30-day period.
DAMBLY:
15
finishes
pardon
Oh,
they
and it
finish
has to be
-
the
licensing
support
network's recommendation.
24
MR.
McCRACKEN:
25
MR.
DAMBLY:
Right.
Okay.
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1
MR.
McCRACKEN:
At that point in
time,
it
2
seems to me there should be as much energy put into
3
making the public,
4
other committees aware that they have done this,
5
you make as much effort with that as you're going to
6
make at announcing that particular 30 days that you're
7
making a big deal about.
8
9
MR.
the governmental
DAMBLY:
sure we will do that.
10
that
11
going to know,
12
well.
13
because,
14
preparing.
15
there,
the
state
and
I think that's
right, and I'm
local
government
units
are
again,
it's
important
for
you
to
start
That's why we're putting the documents out
no
not to hide.
formal
requirement
that
17
aware
18
Public Affairs folks will be happy to send out all
19
notices and the press releases.
but
I'm sure
MR.
CAMERON:
And,
Dennis,
Bill and his staff
We'll
21
follow up.
22
where you think it's
23
we'll open it
24
don't think you'll get done.
25
not
we do need to make sure the public -
There's
20
that
I'm not worried, quite frankly,
and our intention is
of,
and
because I'm sure they will know very
But, yes,
16
committees,
MR.
a
and our
notice
the
and
any time you get to a point
logical
to take
up for questions,
DAMBLY:
make
I'm
a
because
break,
then
otherwise
I
Okay.
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94
1
2
MR.
CAMERON:
break for questions,
3
So
whenever
to
we'll do that.
MR. DAMBLY:
Okay.
Again, you have the 30
4
days to file.
It's
5
that 30 days if
you're interested.
6
you want
important you start
long before
And what do you have to do to intervene?
7
You've got to file
8
you've
9
have an interest that's
got
a petition,
to establish two things.
10
by the proceeding
11
sorry,
12
interest that's
14
itself
One,
that you
not
the proceeding,
building a repository.
Hopefully,
13
that petition
going to be adversely affected
or by --
but by the --
in
and in
you
won't
be
I'm
Okay.
have
--
an
adversely affected by the proceeding
terms of how the proceeding goes.
But -
15
(Laughter.)
16
And you have to come up with one or more
17
contentions,
18
you
19
application,
20
standards that will be issued by the agency that will
21
be applicable to a repository.
and a contention is
dispute
22
which
simply an issue which
DOE
has
submitted
factually --
say,
they do not meet the
So you go through their
in
their
application and,
23
you know,
24
or suppose our regulations say that you have to have
25
three widgets in
just
look at
--
suppose the application-
a certain area.
And you look through
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95
1
what they submit,
2
two."
3
could just look at the application and say,
4.
not complying with the regulations."
Well,
5
and they say,
"We're going to have
that would be a valid contention.
More likely than not,
You
"They're
there are going to
6
be a lot more detailed engineering kinds of judgments
7
to be made than safety things,
8
we've heard already today about certain legal issues
9
on
who
owns
the
if
property.
That
10
contention,
11
over where they're building it.
12
contention.
13
would be
a
valid
you could say they do not have control
Now, the first
14
interest
15
called "standing."
16
to be two groups of people,
17
earlier
18
local government,
19
of Nevada,
20
regulations.
21
and legal issues that
That would be a valid
thing we talked about is
that would be adversely affected.
and I'll
To get standing
there are going
--
came up
The affected units of
affected Indian tribes in
basically have
This is
and I guess this
talk about it.
an
the State
standing by virtue of our
They don't have
to show interest
that's
22
adversely affected.
23
already got standing.
24
you don't have to get to the standing stage.
25
else has to show how they are personally going to be
If
you're in
those groups, you've
You would file
contentions, but
Everyone
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1
adversely affected or impacted.
2
It's
3
not
4
distinct,
5
well,
maybe
6
forth
that
7
government
8
you.
harm
to
harm to yourself.
third
persons.
concrete,
and not
9
It's
And
some
some
repository
it's
You
specific
is
going
That's standing.
got
to
speculation
something or other.
there's
not harm -
to
have
way
that,
to
in
be
come
which
a
adversely affect
That gets you in
to say,
10
"Okay.
11
as Larry said,
12
for example,
13
you've got standing because you posited that somehow
14
Yucca
Mountain was
15
farm,
you know,
16
contention.
17
standing
18
shouldn't be granted.
Now you can file
19
Contentions,
are not limited to standing.
if
I mean,
you're farming by Yucca Mountain,
going
to
adversely
radiation-wise,
You can
to
contentions."
raise
Okay.
raise
it,
as
your
you could raise any
any
to
impact
and
issue,
why
if
that
you
have
application
Again, another issue on standing -
20
organizations.
21
standing.
22
organizational
23
if
24
owns property, they could raise standing individually.
Two
They
could
interest.
they own property
25
ways
The other,
in
organizations
show
a
Generally,
the area,
harm
can
to
have
their
that would mean
the organization
and the one that is
--
as far
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1
as I know, the only one that has ever been used in
the
2
NRC proceeding is
for
3
example,
4
this.
5
example,
6
Sierra
7
Mountain.
the
I
Sierra
don't
Club wants
know
if
Club,
--
we'll take,
to
they
a hypothetical.
8
9
an organization
do
get
involved
it's
--
in
just
an
And you're a member of the
and you farm 15 kilometers
from Yucca
And they could mean you as the petitioner
on which
they will
base
their
standard.
You're
a
10
member.
You individually would have standing.
The
11
Sierra Club could piggyback on that and come in
as a
12
party,
and then represent you.
13
This
slide
is
Okay.
about
--
14
concerns
15
sufficient
16
sufficient to be a contention either.
17
say,
18
like it."
19
live
20
Nevada,
21
that's
general
about the safety of the repository are not
to
get
you
"I don't think it's
standing.
They
Maine.
and so
I
have
a
friend
I want to come
not a harm to you.
22
Contention
wouldn't
--
in
be
You just can't
going to be safe,
That won't be sufficient.
in
the
and I don't
You can say,
who has
and"
--
lived
"I
in
you know,
That's not specific.
again,
that's
a
legal
or
23
factual dispute with DOE and a failure to comply with
24
the rules,
25
make
--
it's
regulations,
got
and statutes.
to be specific.
It
You've got to
can't
be
just
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1
that it's
2
example
3
three widgets,
not safe,
I
and I don't like it.
used before,
4
it
says
you've
they only have two.
Again,
got
to
the
have
That's specific.
You have to also support it
with documents
5
or expert opinions.
6
licensing support network and see if
there's
documents
7
out
reports
that
8
contrary,
9
something.
You can't just say,
10
safe,
don't think they did this right."
11
have to be able to show what basis you would have for
12
saying that.
there
that
Hence,
you're
whatever,
and I
13
It's
you can look through the
aware
of,
are
but you've got to come up with
got
to
be
a
"I
don't think it's
significant
You
issue,
I
made
a
14
think.
15
reference,
16
to the regulations the --
17
are supposed to be red,
18
don't know that we would have a regulation like that.
The
19
other
day
for example,
But
if
it
we
if
talked
about
--
somebody said, "Well, point
the trucks at Yucca Mountain
and they're yellow."
was
something
that
Well,
was
I
that
20
insignificant,
21
a hearing is
22
not there will be a license issued or not.
23
got to be something that would affect the outcome of
24
the proceeding,
25
proceeding.
the fact that you prevailed on that in
not going to have an impact on whether or
So
it's
potentially affect the outcome of the
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1
Okay.
Intervenors
--
it's
an individual
2
organization that shows it's
3
to
4
Licensing
5
decision on whether or not you have standing and/or an
6
admissible contention.
7
not up to DOE.
file
an admissible
Board,
8
9
not
It's
Once
got standing, and has got
contention.
the
NRC
staff,
the
board
says
11
get
12
everybody else.
13
And,
14
And as I said previously, generally,
15
proceedings,
16
it
is
in
the
make
a
It's
you've
met
the
and they've admitted at least
one contention,
again,
will
That's up to the Board.
10
they'll
party
again,
not up to NRC.
standing requirements
full
And,
issue an order and you will
status,
have
At that point,
the
same
rights
as
we get to discovery.
this proceeding it's
highly unusual.
discovery in
and probably in most litigation,
NRC
a lot of
about documents.
17
In this particular case there should be no
18
document discovery necessary, because it
19
up online as part of the licensing support
20
So there should not be a need for you to ask questions
21
about,
22
such.
23
asked at the pre-license application
24
make sure that it's
25
needed.
should all
be
network.
give me your documents pertaining to such and
And if
you have those questions,
all
they should be
judge phase
to
up there and online when it's
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100
1
So
in
this
particular
case,.
2
discovery
3
status.
4
support network.
5
you can use one of two tools --
6
interrogatories
7
questions,
8
And
9
accomplish this consistent with that.
10
--
the
formal
However,
discovery
is
the real discovery is
But in
are
the
after
real
party
the licensing
the formal hearing process,
basically
interrogatories,
you write
a
and
list
of
and then you send them to another party.
please,
DOE,
explain
to
me
how
you
plan
to
And they have
to respond back.
The other method of discovery you can use
11
12
is
13
somewhat
14
there's a process to do it
15
want to take their
16
them
17
They raise
18
truth, and then you ask questions just like you would
19
at a hearing,
20
and on the record.
what's
called depositions.
like a hearing,
under
21
oath
in
And a
deposition
that you notify
--
record with a
their right hand,
and
an individual that you
statement and you do it
on the
--
is
by putting
transcriber.
they swear to tell
the
and they have to answer them under oath
Other parties also get to ask questions
22
and examine and cross
23
there
24
questions.
25
particular
are
can
And
ask
this
proceeding,
examine.
--
can
is
As many parties as
participate
another
and
way--
probably
and
and
in
most
ask
this
NRC
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1
proceedings,
2
experts,
3
that John Doe is
normally
where
4
depositions
you're
trying to
would
find out
saying that this is
involve
the
basis
the way it
is.
And one reason you use a deposition is
so
5
when you ask them a question under oath and on the
6
record,
7
opinion is
8
to the hearing and they say it's
9
go,
10
and they say,
based on X,
"Excuse me.
And it's
"Yes,
Y,
this is
Z,"
--
well,
you know,
then,
if
based on A,
You told me it's
my
you get
B,
C,
you
based on X,
Y,
Z."
used to undermine credibility.
11
Okay.
Evidentiary hearing
12
Larry indicated earlier,
13
boards established in
14
if
15
event,
16
three, the hearing itself
17
trial
18
television,
there
will
be,
there
could be two or more
this proceeding.
but
it's
19
I don't know
possible.
in each one of them, whether it's
you've seen if
I think as
--
But
in
any
one or two or
will be pretty much like any
you've done jury duty or watched
Court TV,
or any of the numerous shows.
All of the parties will put on witnesses,
20
submit
21
cross examine witnesses,
22
judge
23
ultimately make a decision based on what's submitted
24
as part of the record.
documentary
panel
25
from
evidence.
the
Other
and it's
in
Licensing
parties
get
to
front of a three
Board
who
will
You can attack qualifications of experts.
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1
If
somebody
2
authority on something,
3
background
4
their
5
Board.
6
staff,
claims
for
to
that,
be
the
world's
and they don't really have the
you
could
challenge
testimony may not be allowed.
The Board makes all
not DOE.
7
It's
In
foremost
that
That's up to the
these decisions,
not the
the judges.
any hearing,
DOE will have the burden
8
of
9
repository that will be constructed will meet all
proof.
It's
up
to
DOE
to
establish
that
10
the requirements of the rules,
11
and will protect the public health and safety.
12
their
13
is
burden.
It
is
and
statutes,
the
of
regulations,
not the NRC staff's
That's
burden.
It
not an intervenor's burden.
14
DOE
has
to
make
sure
if
they
want
an
15
application granted that the record supports that they
16
fully
17
intervenor and you've got three or four or 300 or 400
18'
issues
19
move those along.
comply
with
everything.
that you want dealt with,
20
You have to put in
And
it's
if
you're
an
up to you to
evidence to explain why
21
those are valid issues and why you should be believed
22
or
23
application
24
still
25
you're wrong.
your
evidence
should
should be
be
denied.
accepted
But
DOE
and
the
ultimately
has the burden of proving that they're right and
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1
If
testimony is
rejected or exhibits are
2
rejected by the Board because either the witness isn't
3
qualified to testify,
4
relevant to the proceeding,
5
the record and a decision can't be based on rejected
6
testimony or rejected evidence.
7
on just what ultimately ends up in
8
9
After
will
issue
an
the proposed exhibits are not
the
they don't become part of
It's
hearing,
initial
got to be based
the record.
the
Licensing
decision.
They
will
10
findings of
11
single contested issue that was before them.
12
they finish making
13
make
14
construction authorization should be issued,
15
or issued with additional conditions.
the ultimate
16
17
fact and conclusions of
And I
all
of
those
law about
findings
make
every
And when
they will
finding as to whether or not the
guess we can let
the appeal before we take all
denied,
Larry talk about
of the questions.
18
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
19
MR.
DAMBLY:
Because
20
Board
it's
a very short
area to deal with.
21
MR.
CAMERON:
And at some point we still
22
have
23
environmental impact statement in the hearing process.
one issue
24
25
MR.
thing
that
I
here outstanding
DAMBLY:
did
mean
I'll
--
the role
cover that.
to
mention
of
the
The one
about
the
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1
environmental impact statement --
2
Larry both mentioned that under the statute and under
3
our
has
to
4
impact statement if
it's
5
And it's
rules
NRC
in
7
that
8
impact
9
they're proposing in
was
evaluated
practical
by
is
DOE
11
environmental information.
12
If
new
and
those are
the case,
cannot be brought
into the hearing.
15
it's
5151.109
16
staff's
17
DOE EIS.
18
into the hearing.
19
So if
from
our Part
DOE,
conclusion that it
That
is
a
and
--
you
you think --
21
statement
22
else,
23
raise a contention that that's
24
those two standards."
25
that
taking
their
wholeheartedly,
would
to
issues
But you may -
can challenge
the
that can be brought
if
the NRC staff
environmental
we're
the environmental stuff is
board
and if
different
environmental
contention
"Yes,
the
environmental
was practical to adopt the
20
we're
the facility
then we have
14
in
if
significantly
adopt
EIS
the statute and
their
13
the
to do that.
the application to build,
there's
any
in
environmental
substantially the same one that
10
not
DOE
practicable
to mean it's
statement
the
defined both in
6
our regs
adopt
and I think Bill and
not
doing
off limits,
says,
impact
anything
you can
not appropriate under
And that would be a contention
have
to
deal
with
in
the
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105
1
proceeding.
2
And if
3
you know,
4
subject of review.
it
found you were correct,
the whole environmental
5
MR.
6
Larry,
then,
issue becomes
the
Okay.
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thanks,
Dennis.
can you give us a brief exposition
7
on the appeals process?
8
questions on all
9
MR.
And then we'll open it
up for
these subjects.
CHANDLER:
Sure.
I'll
try to make it
10
as brief
11
referred to as the review process, because in
12
both
13
review during the process,
14
opportunities
15
Commission to involve and decide matters before the
16
decision of the Board is
17
For example,
18
provided to appeal the pre-hearing
19
which would rule on the admission of parties
20
is,
21
whether someone has submitted contentions --
22
specifically
provided
23
regulations.
And
24
standings and entertain an appeal of those decisions.
as possible.
appeals
whether
25
and
decisions
that
the
as
it
should be really
well
as
terms of
Commission
there are certain specific
the
someone
In
Perhaps
parties
have
to
ask
the
issued.
if
has
a specific opportunity is
conference
established
for
in
Commission
addition to those
the
will
order
--
standing
that
or
those are
Commission's
provide
opportunities,
the
the
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106
1
presiding
2
raised
3
warrants the Commission's review at that point in
4
before the process winds its
board may believe
is
sufficient
5
that one of
enough
and
the
complex
issues
that
it
time
way to a conclusion.
And they could certify a question to the
6
Board
7
Commission for it
8
provide guidance to the Board on how the matter should
9
be handed in
and
ask
--
to
the
Commission
and
ask
the
to resolve a particular issue and
the hearing itself.
Parties also have an opportunity to ask
10
11
the Board to refer a question to the Commission.
12
much the same kind of a matter.
13
--
14
Commission
15
licensing board before it
Those opportunities
those actions are rarely granted.
16
will
await
But
if
the
ultimate
Typically,
decision
the
issues
are
of
by
a
sufficient
importance,
18
first
19
the board to refer a matter or the board itself
20
believe
21
point in
it
the
involves itself.
17
truly novel and complex issues,
impression,
It's
issues of
the party may be able to persuade
warrants
Commission
involvement
may
at
that
time.
22
There are truly high thresholds,
though,
23
for interlocutory reviews.
Interlocutory reviews are
24
views
the
25
decision
sort
--
of
midway
in
process
before
the
the Licensing Board's decision has been
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107
1
issued.
2
In
terms of appeal,
the decision of the
3
Board,
4
can be appealed to the Commission within 40 days.
5
with respect to any of these matters,
6
I talked about in
7
has
8
someone
9
Board,
the initial
covered,
decision that Dennis referred to,
my overview,
parties
files
a plea
need to
--
certain action to be taken, all
11
opportunity to respond.
It
is
bear
in
truly,
mind
that
a request to
for that
10
12
the issues that
as well as what Dennis
a motion --
or to the Commission
And
matter,
if
the
for a
of the parties have an
truly a rare,
rare exception
13
that the decisionmaker would rule without hearing from
14
all
15
parties do have a right to respond.
of
the
affected
16
Now,
17
another context.
18
in
19
briefly
20
responsibility of
21
Board is
22
in
parties
Commission
given
review
issue.
also
takes
So
on
What Dennis was referring to earlier
terms of the initial
in
on a
decision and what I mentioned
passing
the
as
well
Atomic
to issue an initial
is
Safety
that
and
the
Licensing
decision, decide matters
controversy.
23
The Board will issue an initial
24
make
25
raised
its
decision
in
only
on
the contentions
those
decision,
matters
by the parties
that
that
are
have
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108
1
been accepted in
2
be a
3.
will not decide.
lot of
4
the proceeding.
issues that the
Those matters still
There would likely
Licensing Board
itself
have to be decided by
5
the staff
6
then has the responsibility before it
7
Director of the Office of Nuclear Material Safety and
8
Safeguards,
9
before the Commission authorizes the Director of that
as part of its
the
review,
office
that
and the Commission
Bill
authorizes the
Reamer
works
in,
10
office
11
Commission
12
respect to the contested issues there is
13
doubt the repository would be constructed and operated
14
safely,
15
suspend or otherwise
16
license.
to
issue
a
would
have
construction
to
authorization,
satisfy
itself
that
the
with
no basis to
or that the Commission should take action to
condition the authorization or
17
Again, that review and those findings have
18
to be made by the Commission, both with respect to the
19
contested issues as well as uncontested issues.
20
again,
21
the right to do one of three things.
22
application,
23
grant the application subject to conditions, grant the
24
application subject to conditions.
And,
as we have repeatedly said, the Commission has
25
it
It
It
can deny the
can grant the application,
actually
has
one
and it
other
can
possible
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109
1
approach,
2
that
3
action
4
hearing,
5
It
6
action.
it
and that
believed
by one
it
is
if
there was
could
of
the
be
some deficiency
rectified
parties
in
with
the
further
context
of
a
could remand the matter back to the Board.
could send the matter back to the Board for further
7
That essentially completes our comments.
8
I
9
process to you,
10
MR.
hope
we've
had
CAMERON:
you
12
information there,
for
13
your
MS.
success
in
explaining
Okay.
patience.
and let's
TREICHEL:
Thanks.
There
15
is
a
16
But you're used to licensing reactors.
17
mistake,
18
lot
19
which I disapprove of,
20
it
21
take it
When we look at this
of a kind in
the whole world,
you can turn the thing off.
people
is
opposed
and it
it
lot
of
Judy?
You may have taken way too
much mystery out of it.
of
And thank
go for questions.
14
the first
the
taking some of the mystery out of it.
11
all
some
still
turns out they were right,
goes
If
If
--
this
actually.
you make a
there are a
through
gets approved.
you can turn it
anyway,
But if
off and
out.
22
This is
very, very different.
And you're
23
dealing with at least three people that I've seen in
24
this room.
25
which not only are uniquely qualified
You're dealing with the Western Shoshoni,
to know about
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1
that area because they've always been there, but they
2
certainly are experts.
3
You're dealing with the people who live in
4
the Amargosa Valley who are experts in Amargosa Valley
5
farming,
6
you're
dealing
7
that's
about.
8
standing going into this thing.
livestock,
9
all
with
of that
the
rest
we
are
just
of
thing,
us
who
know
of
And here we are,
If
sort
and
what
the only ones without
members
of
the
public,
10
unless first
11
the
12
equipment that we'll need in
13
we have to win the ultimate contest of being accepted
14
as interviewers with standing --
15
never
16
being speculative about our contentions.
legal
we win some money so that we can afford
help
going
17
that
to get
we'll
need,
and
the
order to play,
over the
and then
and I know that we're
hurdle
This whole thing is
computer
built
about
being
-
on.DOE coming in
18
with
19
guesses
20
everything they're telling
21
is
no other repository you can go look at to see how
22
it
works.
probabilistic
23
out
over
models
a
in
period
which
of
you is
Anything we say is
24
that something will go wrong.
25
be the ones who take
they're
10,000
making
years.
speculative.
So
There
going to be speculation
And then we're going to
the hits on being experts
and
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ill
1
being qualified.
2
So
And it's
we
are
not going to fly.
left
with
the
incredible
3
position of possibly being the new participants in
4
guerilla war, where someone is
5
and not giving us the basis to do anything.
6
don't want to get into an argument about it.
7
just the way I see it,
8
because I think that's
9
MR.
Any comment?
11
MR.
Thank you,
That's
CHANDLER:
Well,
Judy.
I
have
12
comments.
13
licensing action, clearly, the repository is
14-
of a kind.
several
terms of the significance of the
the first
I wouldn't suggest otherwise.
15
I would,
there
And I
the boat we're in.
10
in
attacking where we live
and I want that on the record,
CAMERON:
One,
a
have
however,
been many
suggest that there are
16
--
17
importance,
18
has been considered and acted upon by the Commission.
19
Reactor
20
still
21
Commission takes very, very seriously, and it's
22
history has taught us painfully --
23
question
24
problem.
a very,
25
of great
and certain technical sophistication that
licensing,
of
licensing actions
while more
very large
turning
The
off
mature
technology
responsibility,
a
Commission
which
--
is
the
as
not always a simple
reactor
intends
when
to
there's
exercise
a
its
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112
judgments
reviewing this,
expect
objective
2
that
3
opportunity to try and participate.
4
to you today whether you would be successful or not be
5
successful in
individuals
6
in
and I
1
like
yourself
will
have
an
I can't suggest
establishing standing to participate.
You don't need a
lawyer.
During one of
7
the breaks I was commenting to someone that there have
8
been a number of proceedings in
9
like
yourselves
have
been
which lay individuals
very
effective,
active
10
participants in a licensing proceeding with respect to
11
any number of very large reactor facilities.
12
They've
raised
very
serious
questions,
13
which have received very serious consideration by the
14
Commission before a license is
15
it
16
with
17
standing.
18
Commission's thresholds for having contentions.
issued.
to be absolutely no different
this.
They
have
They
have
19
MR.
CAMERON:
20
MR.
DAMBLY:
than in
succeeded
connection
with establishing
succeeded
Okay.
I would expect
in
meeting
the
Thanks.
Let me make one comment also
21
on standing.
22
they apply, are not something the Commission made up.
23
They are the same rules that would be applied in
24
federal court litigation;
25
standing.
The Commission's rules on standing,
as
any
the Supreme Court rules on
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1
Any
litigation
in
this
nation
requires
2
standing.
3
a more,
4
there was a board up here and just everybody came in
5
and made presentations,
6
and did what it
It's
different than if
8
litigation
9
This is
in
In any formal
not an NRC-specific requirement.
MR.
11
MS.
this.
formal litigation.
this country you have to have standing.
10
13
and then the board went away
wanted to do.
This is
litigation
you know,
as Larry said, legislative kind of thing where
7
12
this was,
CAMERON:
Okay.
TREICHEL:
Thanks.
Under
other
formal
we would have read our rights and provided
14
MR.
15
go to three questions here,
16
to Mr.
CAMERON:
McGowan,
17
All right.
and then we're going to go
and we're going to start
MS.
SARTIN:
18
And if
19
greatly
20
ultimate power is
appreciate
it.
right here.
Jenney Sartin, Clark County.
you gentlemen will humor me,
21
We're going to
I
do
please,
understand
I would
where
the
and the decisionmaking process lies.
But as you probably are aware, Finland, in
22
their
great wisdom,
23
their
Nuclear Act,
24
local
veto power.
25
made
to place
a
made the decision to include in
Nuclear Energy Act,
And ultimately
repository
in
the right of
the decision was
that
area.
It
also
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1
happened
2
nuclear waste powerplant.
to
3
be
an
area
In any case,
where
there
was
already
I'm just curious
--
a
perhaps
4
you can enlighten me as to why a decision was not made
5
to include local veto power.
6
MR.
CHANDLER:
Well,
certainly the State
7
of Nevada has an opportunity to express its
8
the acceptability of the decision.
9
responsibility is
views on
The Commission's
a very, relatively speaking, narrow
10
responsibility.
11
with reviewing an application for a repository.
12
We're charged by the Waste Policy Act
We
are
charged
with
establishing
13
appropriate
14
assurance of adequate protection of health and safety
15
of the public that's
16
responsibility of reviewing the environmental
17
as described earlier
18
whether we're able to adopt the environmental
19
statement prepared by the Department of Energy.
20
The ultimate decision on selection
standards
which will provide reasonable
involved.
site
22
of the Department of Energy.
23
members
24
participate.
25
opportunity to participate
siting of the facility
of
issues
by Bill and Dennis to determine
21
--
We're charged with the
Congress,
is
have
of a
the responsibility
The public officials,
an
opportunity
Their elected representatives
in
impact
to
have an
that process as well.
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Our role is
confined to objectively and
2
independently assessing whether that facility
3
proposed
4
agency has established.
will
comply
5
MR.
6
Dennis?
7
MR.
with
CAMERON:
Okay.
BECHTEL:
8
question about --
9'
is
the
that
Thank you.
I've got a
based on Department of Energy's application.
11
based on DOE's application,
12
MR.
DAMBLY:
13
MR.
BECHTEL:
14
MR.
DAMBLY:
Yes.
I
right?
said that -
License application.
--
you need to look at DOE's
application
16
application is
17
a
18
lousy job of reviewing
that,
19
basis for a contention."
It
20
with DOE's application.
and
legal basis.
MR.
the EIS is
23
point
out
deficient,
what
where
You don't wait and say,
BECHTEL:
DAMBLY:
and we've discussed,
MR.
--
because
"NRC
that's
did a
not the
has to be something wrong
But the question I had was:
right?
Except as you're well aware,
there are specific
BECHTEL:
their
either from a technical or
part of the application,
MR.
25
I'm
Intervention would be considered by NRC
15
21
the
you had indicated that intervention
sorry.
24
standards
Dennis Bechtel.
10
22
that is
-
Yes.
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1
MR.
2
that say we have to adopt it,
3
process.
4
that can be dealt with in
it's
statutory
and it's
requirements
not part of the
-
MR. BECHTEL:
So once the EIS is accepted,
off the table as part of the application?
7
MR.
8
the
9
because
10
--
So that describes the limited way in which
5
6
DAMBLY:
hearing
it
DAMBLY:
that
we
wasn't
Well,
you could challenge in
should
not
practical
under
have
adopted
it,
the
statute
and
under our regulations.
MR.
11
BECHTEL:
But the question --
12
we would have
13
issues are not going to be addressed in
14
that
15
have standing,
16
whether we're an intervenor or not,
17
that's
18
about that perhaps is
if
to do that.
it's
your decision
but it
not there --
19
I
20
we're
21
without,
going
--
to
24
status
25
submit contentions,
by
it's
the EIS.
And
good to hear we
based on something
the EIS.
concern
knocked
is
out
that,
of
you
the
know,
box
here
being able to defend ourselves.
MR. CHANDLER:
Actually,
it's
that our
something we feel strongly
not in
get
23
--
is
your decision to determine
I mean,
guess my
you know,
22
Our concern
I guess
just
--
regulation
You do have an opportunity.
those
still
who
have
are
an
given
party
obligation
and I would certainly
--
to
to the
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1
extent the state would have issues to raise, or one of
2
the
3
regarding
4
appropriate,
5
a basis for its
6
should have been adopted.
other
entities
would
whether
the
have
adoption
of
to
the
raise
EIS
was
would seek to raise those and articulate
7
contention that
8
able to articulate
9
again,
10
Board
11
staff,
12
if
13
considered in
contention that it
--
So those views would
by the way,
assuming you were
--
an acceptable
we can't presume
--
issues
contention
to judge
that is
that
today
the Board,
and,
--
the
--
not the NRC
which determines whether to accept that.
it's
accepted,
14
know,
16
contention.
17
less
18
process.
it's
merit
BECHTEL:
good
to
But
that
My
know
It's
concern
that
we
would be
this
is
that,
can
the contention
and not eliminate
19
it
the hearing process.
MR.
15
then there would be --
And
submit
is
--
you
a
considered
some
sort
of
-
MR.
CHANDLER:
Point taken.
All
I
can
20
suggest
21
who participates,
22
that's
23
whatever reasons that you have for articulating your
24
contention.
is
that at the appropriate time that
give
the simplest way.
25
The board --
it
your best shot.
anyone
I
mean,
I mean, you need to set out
again,
DOE will respond to
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your contention.
2
And we may or may not agree that
3
contention.
4
We will respond to your contention.
it's
Ultimately, the board is
an acceptable
going to decide,
5
and the board has --
6
instances,
7
instances.
8
We don't universally support contentions.
9
fairly
we agree with the staff
and we disagree
the
staff
look at them fairly,
10
and take a position in
11
case
on a
and on their
support of or in
case-by-case basis.
We're going to go Abby Johnson,
CAMERON:
Thank you,
we'll go up to the front to Mr.
15
MS.
touched
17
standing
18
of
JOHNSON:
a
raw
Dennis.
McGowan.
and then
Abby?
Abby Johnson, Eureka County.
nerve
when
you
said
that
the
public
proceeding.
It's
just sort of business as usual.
19
my
to
20
business as usual.
comment
21
that
is
is
similar
that
this
And my other comment is
22
--
23
have the NRC and its
24
public
25
having standing,
and I think a lot
can
to
opposition to
13
You
some
merits,
MR.
16
in
We try
12
14
some
We don't universally oppose contentions.
--
--
with
in
be
any
project
staff
federal
And
is
not
that I would like
of the counties would like
involved
if
to
the
--
to
consider the ways that the
in
the
process,
including
appropriate.
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And to say that it's
2
done since we exploded our first
3
way it's
4
rules,
5
very few rules,
6
being
7
convincing argument.
bomb,
been
and it's
the
been done in federal court, and these are the
for a project for which there
changed,
8
9.
the way it's
are currently
and for which those that apply are
that
doesn't
So the sort of
--
that's
not
a
very
flexibility that you're
allowing the Department of Energy for its
repository
10
design I would argue could also be brought to the way
11
the public is involved the licensing process, whether
12
it's
13
to follow it,
14
Judy
15
organization trying to -- to bring their
16
to the table, or whether it's
17
who are very concerned about this project and really
18
want to know how they can participate.
19
comment.
the public sitting back and watching it,
or whether it's
Treichel
20
more of a public like
representing
My question
is:
trying
a
citizen
action
unique issues
people from our county
what's
So that's my
the deal
with
21
transportation and this license?
22
where our primary impact is transportation, which was
23
pretty much in
24
get standing, but what's your take on transportation
25
and the extent to which it
order in
Some of us counties
the draft EIS --
so we might
will be addressed by the
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1
Department of Energy in
2
Because
its
application?
my understanding
3
how we would --
4
with something in
5
a contention.
6
at all that we think should be?
7
if
envisions
9
review.
you don't agree
Well, what about stuff that's
not there
DAMBLY:
MR.
I'll
REAMER:
to
let
Bill address how he
be
involved
Abby,
it's
in
environmental
impact
12
safety issue.
The safety issues that the staff
13
review
14
project related to the repository itself.
15
related to the transportation.
there
16
is
statement
a
license
their
fundamentally an
11
--
that's
can become
transportation
10
if
that
the application that it
MR.
8
what you said,
is
issue.
It's
not
application
Transportation, however, is
a
will
on
It
this
is
not
covered in the
17
Department of Energy's draft environmental
statement
18
and will be in
And so to
19
the extent that it
20
will be reviewed under the --
21
environmental
22
23
is
reviewed in
in
our proceeding,
it
connection with the
impact statement.
MR.
CAMERON:
MR.
CHANDLER:
Is
there a
second part to
this answer?
24
25
the final impact statement.
someone
challenged
To the extent it
or would
like
to
--
challenge
that
the
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1
sufficiency or the basis upon which the staff
2
the EIS,
3
that
4
establish standing.
you could seek
way.
I
5
mean,
to perhaps
you're
adopts
challenge
otherwise
it
in
unable
to
The contention you may wish to advance to
6
be considered is
7
and fill
8
again, you need to have some articulated basis for it.
9
It's
in
that adoption is
the blank.
I
appropriate because,
mean,
the
contention
not going to be simply enough to say,
"I
-
don't
10
like it
11
fact offered for making that assertion that there's
12
something
13
requires standing.
because
--
14
some
MR.
15
point,
16
the
17
broadened,
if
... "
basis
CAMERON:
someone in
Commission
18
There has to be some basis in
for
suggesting
And if
--
that
on Abby's
that
first
the public wanted to suggest to
that
standing
concepts
should
be
how would they go about doing that?
MR.
CHANDLER:
Well,
a
petition
for
19
rulemaking.
20
I
21
Commission published for comment a fairly
22
revision to its
23
rules of practice generally applicable in
Subpart G,
24
and it
and across
25
the board.
You know,
recommended
earlier
there are -in
my
one of the things
comments
rules of practice.
is
that
the
substantial
That includes the
to some extent applies to Subpart J,
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1
There
2
those.
3
September 14.
4
check.
That
6
period
will
you're interested,
it's
in
CAMERON:
for
comment
on
expire
on
I'm sure you can
the Federal Register.
If
you need a copy of this,
we'll get you a copy.
7
8
If
MR.
an opportunity
comment
Actually,
5
is
MR.
CHANDLER:
MR.
CAMERON:
I wasn't trying to be smart
on that.
9
All right.
there are some other questions.
10
--
11
McGowan at this point.
12
MR.
13
directly
14
nobody else.
15
of BU239?
to
McGOWAN:
I
specifically
the
The question is,
Let's go to Mr.
Let's go to Mr.
preface
two
General
what is
A second question --
the
question
Counsels,
the half life
what is
BU239?
16
PARTICIPANT:
Plutonium 239.
17
MR.
The bottom line on this
McGOWAN:
18
we're talking about
19
address this issue?
standing.
is
Are you qualified to
On those questions you are not.
20
I will now continue.
21
There is
Thank you.
no time and date certain deadline
22
for the submission by DOE/OCRWM/YMPO of an application
23
for the NRC licensing and approval of the construction
24
and operation of an underground repository at Yucca
25
Mountain,
Nevada,
or anywhere else on the planet.
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Why should
the
limited
a
interested
and
affected
2
public
3
participation
4
process and the submission of public comment?
be
in
to
a
5
What is
6
term "intervenor"?
7
"intervenor"
8
affected
9
citizen of,
pertinent
of
the
if
at all,
the
terms
public,
and,
11
reasoning basis?
according
12
to
whom,
Finally,
public
what
is
an
audience,
meeting.
14'
Hyderabad grants an audience.
15
City or Hyderabad.
16
where public participation
17
is
18
form of government which is
19
government by fiat.
The Pope grants an audience.
It's
and
and/or
the United States,
on
13
hearing
interested
and
this
to
does the term
stakeholder,
or person residing in
10
pursuant
NRC definition of the
And how,
from
term
open
the official
differ
member
finite
factual
or
not
a
The Nabob of
But this is
not Vatican
the United States of America,
in
the democratic process
categorically imperative to the preservation of our
20
Finally,
21
public.
22
paymaster,
23
responsible,
24
in
again,
republican democracy, not
we
are
You are the public's NRC.
not
the
NRC's
the public is
the
and you can and will be held accountable,
and liable for your acts and omissions,
accordance with applicable law.
25
And I'm not kidding one bit.
Thank you
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1
very much.
2
3
MR.
Kalynda?
MS.
7
--
8
Tom,
9
night,
TILGES:
Kalynda Tilges,
there
were
Thank you.
In
Citizen Alert.
sweet
rolls
In
and
all
all
fairness
fairness,
coffee
from
and I missed the opportunity to tell
thank you.
It
Actually,
were refreshments here today, but
13
last
you all
was much appreciated.
PARTICIPANT:
11
12
suggestions.
Let's go to Kalynda and the up to Susi.
6
10
Good
Absolutely.
4
5
CAMERON:
PARTICIPANT:
There
14
there for after the meeting,
15
than happy to provide them.
16
(Laughter.)
17
MS.
TILGES:
I'm told
there
-
are refreshments
in
and Clark County was more
Thank you.
I'm going to try
18
and make
19
that I've sat through this same meeting twice and now
20
I'm more confused than ever.
21
this
as
In
succinct
talking
as
about
possible,
not
considering
speculative
22
remote,
23
The whole thing is
speculative and remote,
24
we
hasn't
25
can't say that it's
--
or
I guess I can only go back on what Judy said.
because
it
happened
definite.
yet
and how can
anywhere,
We can have it
we
thrown
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back in
our face by DOE's unlicensed engineers,
and
2
NRC's
unlicensed
not
3
professionals,
4
engineers,
but
even though we are also unlicensed.
Question
I
guess
--
I
5
problem,
6
answer,
with the
7
docket,
hearing docket being the official
and
8
9
this
doesn't
planning stages,
it
10
areas,
11
amounts
12
technology,
13
become a part of it.
with
this
who
don't
or
have
even
15
is
16
considering it's
17
one question.
any
18
is
This is
like
to see --
way
that
still
in
And also,
a
require
the
an
electronic
record.
still
in
access
mediocre
are going to be able
I'd
there
--
since
technology
14
have
really concerns me that in
people
of
still
necessarily
electronic
Especially
and
we're
the
rural
to
large
amounts
to access
this
of
or
not democracy.
is
this
there any provision,
could
be
changed
the planning stages?
I'm a little
19
talk about --
20
exactly how to ask the question.
That's
confused when you
and I guess I'm so confused I'm not sure
21
(Laughter.)
22
Is
23
talking about,
24
about a step-wise licensing process, where first
25
would be licensing for building of the repository, and
this
is
whole --
the whole process you're
this going to happen
--
you talk
there
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then licensing for the operation,
2
or placement,
3
and then license -
whichever comes first.
So do we go through
this whole process
4
each time in the licensing, or does this one licensing
5
period
6
intervenors and all
7
time?
cover
8
9
all
of
that
with
of that?
the
and
Do we go through it
the
each
And there was also reference made to how
this might be comparable to,
10
Wapner,
11
going to be televised?
which brings
12
MR.
DAMBLY:
televised.
14
have an objection to it
15
wanted to.
I
don't
say Judge Judy or Judge
up the question,
13
know that
being televised
17
which I did want to address
18
MR.
CAMERON:
Step-wise.
19
MR.
DAMBLY:
Oh,
answer
your
the
Actually,
under the regulations,
21
potential
for two
22
authorization and a
23
license if
hearings
it
thing
will be
if
previous
would
somebody
question,
-
20
24
this
the Commission
Now,
to
is
I don't know if
16
25
LSN
--
step-wise.
Okay.
there would be the
one for construction
second hearing for an operating
you will.
MS.
TILGES:
Potential, you said?
You're
not sure.
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MR.
1
2
is
3
authorization,
4
through,
5
construction
6
second stage in
7
MR.
DAMBLY:
potentially
--
go
and
Well,
if
I mean, the whole thing
they
through all
we'll
say
give
the
the
authorization,
construction
steps,
they come
agency
then
there
issues
will
a
be
a
which there will be another hearing.
CAMERON:
And
you
would
--
just
8
because you were a party or an intervenor in
9
hearing wouldn't necessarily automatically bring you
10
into the
11
live here at that point,
12
you know
second hearing.
MR.
14
standing again.
15
MR.
see if
17
Kalynda.
DAMBLY:
or be close to the plant,
or,
You would have to establish
CAMERON:
MS.
SNYDER:
up because I'm tall,
Let's go to Susi and then
Thank you.
and it
20
(Laughter.)
21
All right.
22
MR.
23
you may not even
there's other questions and check back in
18
19
mean,
-
13
16
I
the first
I like to stand
makes me feel powerful.
Anyway
CAMERON:
with
-
She
wants
a
yes
or
no
answer.
24
(Laughter.)
25
Maybe.
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1
(Laughter.)
2
MS.
SNYDER:
Thank you.
I have a question
3
kind of building on what Kalynda was
4
there be a trial
5
MR.
saying.
Will
run on the licensing support network?
DAMBLY:
Well,
it
will certainly be
6
tested.
7
Will it
be used in
8
there's
any plan for that to specifically happen.
I don't know what you mean by "trial
9
10
MR.
another hearing?
CHANDLER:
There is
run."
I don't know that
a requirement that
training be provided.
MS.
11
12
requirement
13
good.
SNYDER:
Okay.
So
that training be provided.
Thank you.
there's
a
That's very
What?
14
MS.
TILGES:
Training provided to whom?
15
MS.
SNYDER:
Yes.
17
MR.
DAMBLY:
Potential parties.
18
MS.
SNYDER:
To potential parties.
16
19
Training provided to
whom?
we wanted training, we'd contact you.
All right.
20
MR.
DAMBLY:
Not me personally,
21
MS.
SNYDER:
All right.
22
are really tired.
23
24
another NRC system that's
25
I
other
but -
I know you guys
I can tell.
The reason I ask that is
mean,
So if
than
--
because there is
called ADAMS.
so
you
guys
And ADAMS obviously
are
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somewhat familiar with ADAMS,
2
use, especially if
3
the documents are not all
4
hard for people to get around and use them, especially
5
when you're like me.
6
and it's
you don't have --
really hard to
it's
of the same format,
I have a land line that if
7
keep my connection for half an hour.
8
is
9
sure that you're taking the best
--
it's
hard because
very difficult.
and it's
I'm lucky I can
You know,
so it
And so I just want to make
--
the precautions
10
necessary to make the LSN a lot more accessible.
11
realize this is
12
MR.
not you guys'
CHANDLER:
area,
but that's
at formatting.
14
at
15
final
16
coming out next week,
17
generally of formats and accessibility are
to
rule
Formatting issues will be addressed,
some
that's
18
MS.
extent,
coming
in
the
out,
rulemaking
or
the
to some extent.
SNYDER:
Okay.
My last
I'm looking for some free legal advice.
20
what
21
contentions,
and right now I
22
microphone.
Does that mean I own it?
23
control
24
necessarily mean they own it?
25
question.
want
to know.
over the
rule
Looking
at
--
--
the
that's
But the issue
19
I
-
They are actively looking
13
least
I
-
question is
And here's
thinking
have control
over this
DOE may have
area of Yucca Mountain,
And that's
about
does that
my legal
Does control prove ownership?
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1
MR.
CHANDLER:
Not necessarily.
Control
2
does
3
ownership doesn't necessarily equate with control.
not
necessarily
4
MR.
equate
CAMERON:
5
about
6
relevant.
7
and then we'll go back.
what's
MS.
one
of
the
Janet,
rule?
the
KOTRA:
Because
and
that
us quickly about
My name is
co-authors
ownership,
did you want to talk
Okay.
Why don't you tell
8
9
in
with
of
the
that
Janet Kotra.
proposed
is
I'm
Part
63
10
regulation.
11
as in
12
DOE would have to demonstrate a clear and unencumbered
13
title
14
would --
And both in
the existing Part 60,
the proposed Part 63,
there is
15
is
I
understand
the
distinction
trying
17
regulations
18
Department demonstrate ownership.
to make,
19
here,
but
would
MR.
And so that
not the same as control.
16
20
a provision that
to the land, ownership of the land.
that
as well
I
want
include
CAMERON:
and then Steve.
you
were
to
assure you that
the
a
provision
the
that
We have a couple of people
All right.
21
MR.
22
(Laughter.)
23
I'm Jim Packer.
PACKER:
I'm going to start
My question
out,
has
too.
to do
24
with the recently released supplemental EIS that says
25
the
DOE
is
going
to
build
a
repository,
and
that
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1
continues
2
license a repository that is
to
evolve.
I
3
(Laughter.)
4
MR.
5
at
6
but -
you,
CAMERON:
Bill.
I
don't
7
(Laughter.)
8
Is
9
heard this?
10
to evolve"?
want
it
clear
to
know,
how
do
you
evolving?
And just
--
know
you
if
they're
pointing
noticed
to you what the
--
that,
have you
Do you understand the statement "continue
MR.
11
REAMER:
I have heard it
in
the past,
12
and I
13
that the Department of Energy talks about a flexible
14
design
15
Commission license a
16
Commission license alternative designs?
17
thrust of the question that you're asking?
think this is
and
a continuation
alternative
18
designs.
Well,
is,
20
license
21
after
22
continue to evolve the design again?
this
the
23
and they're
license
MR.
24
position
25
that
the
do you
is
--
Department
Okay.
the
of
How does
Is
and
the
the
that the
then go
do they start
granted,
REAMER:
today is
say stop
--
does
I guess what I'm asking
19
point
the question
How
flexible design?
MR. PACKER:
at what
of
and
The --
staff's
Energy
up again
then
they
can
what we --
our
position
needs
to
to
today is
propose
a
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1
specific design.
2
application,
3
specific design,
4
Now,
If
there's
going to be a
license
the license application has to include a
one design.
our
regulations,
the
proposed
5
regulations,
6
repository
7
cause the Department of Energy to want to change the
8
design.
recognize
that
constructed,
9
as
that
--
new
if
there
information
a
might
The proposed regulation has a process that
10
they would need to complete
11
that change in
12
any change that raises a
13
issue,
14
Regulatory Commission to look at and review.
15
in
the design.
before
they could make
The gist of the process is
safety issue,
a new safety
would have to be brought back to the Nuclear
That's
the proposed regulation.
16
17
were
MR.
up here.
CAMERON:
Okay.
Dennis and we're back
We'll come back up here.
18
MR.
BECHTEL:
19
MR.
DAMBLY:
20
MR.
BECHTEL:
21
LSN-related questions.
22'
"substantial
23
availability
24
availability
25
slide 34.
and timely
Dennis Bechtel.
Be kinder and gentler.
Yes,
right.
Could you clarify
compliance
requirements."
is
A couple
--
with
I
throwing me off here.
it
of
says
electronic
guess
maybe
You have it
in
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1
MR.
DAMBLY:
Well,
what
that
2
those
3
months
4
the NRC does
5
potential
parties
do
6
documents
that
plan
7
online
8
reasonably close to that 90-day period.
means
dates that we had up where DOE certifies
in
advance,
as
9
it,
you
part
of
MR.
it,
what
it
to use
the
BECHTEL:
So
contention is
11
part of your consideration of -
they do
they do it
means
need
licensing
10
12
support
the
DAMBLY:
Yes.
is
the
up
and
to be
basis
network
for
going to be part of the LSN --
MR.
six
and then one month after
and three months after
is
our
I mean,
Documents that you know
13
that you would use to support a contention need to be
14
in
the LSN.
15
16
in
MR.
DAMBLY:
MR.
BECHTEL:
And what
you're
involved
As
you
get
them,
you
add
them.
19
20
BECHTEL:
-
17
18
MR.
or something begin
21
And even
--
should a hearing
-
MR. DAMBLY:
Even at a hearing,
if
22
something
23
electronically available before you can use it,
24
it's
25
but you can't come in
a last
at
a
hearing,
you
second kind of thing.
have
to
make
But yes,
at a hearing and say,
you get
it
unless
I
mean,
"I'm going
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134
1
to use this document I've had for the past five years,
2
but
3
problem.
I'm
just
doing
it
now."
That
might
pose
a
4
MR.
5
Want equal time?
6
MR.
CHANDLER:
Can I just add one point to
8
MR.
CAMERON:
Yes.
9
MR.
CHANDLER:
Susi, regarding training -
7
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thank you.
that?
know
Go ahead.
10
I
11
potential party --
12
or party shall provide training to its
13
procedures of implementation of the responsibility to
14
provide electronic files
that
15
16
provides
that
each
interested governmental participant
staff
under the
and documentary evidence.
in
the process will
have to undertake some training.
MR.
18
last
19
out of there is
20
a
21
rules,
CAMERON:
And just
let
me
say from
night's meeting as one of the points that we took
better
that we were going to try to provide
explanation
and understanding
on
the
LSN
and we'll explore how to do that.
22
AUDIENCE MEMBER:
Are we going to get a
hard copy?
24
25
regulation
So each participant
17
23
the
asking
you
MR.
HARNEY:
the
same
This is
question
Corbin Harney again
over
and
over.
The
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1
Shoshoni people wants to know what kind of answer you
2
are going to give,
3
the land under the treaty.
4
somebody else's
5
going to put that nuclear waste is
6
the test
site
because they are the legal owner of
You guys are talking about
property here.
That's where you're
Yucca Mountain,
and
belongs to the Western Shoshonis.
7
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
Thank you.
We do
don't know if
we're
8
need to be out of here soon.
9
going to have time for refreshments,
I
10
can take a
11
close up and maybe we can do that.
but at least we
couple of questions here,
12
Steve?
13
MR.
FRISHMAN:
This
is
and then we'll
Steve
Frishman
14
again.
15
to --
16
about
17
what's
18
personally for enlightening us on at least two things
19
that
20
Corbin and your answer to Jim.
21
things.
I just have a very short comment,
in
spite of all
how the rule
in
are
it,
in
is
I want
the
I just
22
we've heard last
not
final,
night and today
and we can't
to thank Bill and you,
proposed
rule,
in
how ridiculous this situation is,
24
about
25
safety,
your
Janet,
answer
--
to
fair
to
point out
that we're talking
we're talking about regulating
and the rule isn't
know
So now we know two
wanted to say this
23
licensing,
and that's
for
because of the legal
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1
system.
2
We can't know what's in
the rule.
But at
3
the same time,
4
where the NRC --
5
doing everything that meets the proposed Part 63 rule.
6
And the NRC staff
7
does or not,
8
9
we see situations nearly every day now
or the DOE is
is
sitting
asserting that
and we're the only ones in
How many times did Bill tell
is
not
me that?
10
to thank you for doing this for us,
11
let
12
and that the NRC is
you know the ridiculous
MR.
is
there deciding whether it
The proposed rule
13
it
the dark.
a
final
rule.
So I just want
and also just to
situation that we're
in
exacerbating.
REAMER:
Steve,
thank you.
I respect
14
your views,
but I
15
unnecessary
confusion
16
proposed rule, and Janet refers to the proposed rule,
17
we're talking about what was published in
18
Register in
19
knows
20
Nevada filed comments on it.
21
referring to.
the
22
23
content
that's
here.
of
that
created kind of an
When
February.
AUDIENCE
I
refer
to
the
the Federal
And the State of Nevada
rule,
MEMBER:
and
And that's
How
can
the
State
of
what we're
you
be
sure
the rule?
24
25
1999 in
think you have
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
I don't know if
going to get too far with this.
we're
We do need to close
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1
up.
I wanted to give an opportunity to people
2
not
have
asked
a
question
tonight.
Is
there
3
who
4
anybody who has a question on what we've been talking
5
about that hasn't spoken?
6
7
MR.
All right.
McGOWAN:
would
I
like
to have
an
opportunity to footnote what -
8
MR.
CAMERON:
How many seconds?
9
MR.
McGOWAN:
Ten.
10
MR.
CAMERON:
Okay.
11
MR.
McGOWAN:
You have the right to remain
my name,
Tom McGowan is
in
case any of you
12
silent.
13
have not recalled that previous experience.
14
In
and
summary,
total
mean
this
15
disrespect,
16
you're between a rock and a hard place.
17
a hard place and a welded chuck.
18
public and your masters,
19
but in
I
realize it
or not,
21
the
22
imperative
23
which
24
practically
25
going to yell out,
You're between the
the same.
but you're one in
of
it
whether you
this:
or not,
far and beyond all
very
Some may say
whether you're willing to accept
responsibility
is
no
deference to your position,
And the point I make is
20
with
fascinating,
nowhere.
of this
but,
Sooner
"Check,
there
or
a
moral
legal minutia,
as
we
later
please,"
is
know,
goes
somebody
because
it
is
does
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1
become a little
2
hours.
3
bit
But
inconclusive after
this
is
what
and irrefutable.
is
about several
important
invaluable
5
are engaged in a conspiracy to commit mass genocide on
6
the
7
universal scale.
8
9
unprecedented
It's
will
actually a
outlive you,
10
repository.
11
system.
12
will
13
facilitators
It
me,
is
fact
direct
somewhat
that
radionuclides
injection into
at
the
impact
humans
and
other
a
any
human
Your prodigies will be affected by it.
organic
species
will
potentially
It
and
-
(Laughter.)
15
--
of
and
the
ultimately
16
causal
17
itself.
18
what it
19
kind of a
20
major
21
upon all
22
sure they know your name.
extinction
Go home
is
of
and explain
you're doing.
social
of mankind.
consciousness
to your grandchildren
You're not here hosting some
gathering.
significance
be
human
and poses
What you're doing has
a
serious
Go home and tell
23
MR.
24
Any final questions?
form,
you
--
scale,
every known material,
14
25
you
is
4
historically
The generic
and
CAMERON:
Thank you,
them that.
Mr.
There is
a so-called feedback form.
consequence
It's
Be
McGowan.
a feedback
an evaluation
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form of the meeting to help the NRC improve on these
2
types
3
comments,
4
of minutes to fill
5
the table.
of
meetings.
both pro and con,
I
6
So
it
out.
we'd
if
like
to
have
your
you could take a couple
It's
right over there on
just thank you for being here,
and we
7
hope we provided some useful information to you today.
8
Thank you very much.
(Whereupon,
9
in
10
at 4:35 p.m.,
the proceedings
the foregoing matter were adjourned.)
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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CERTIFICATE
This is to certify that the attached proceedings
before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission
in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Public Meeting
Docket Number:
(Not Applicable)
Location:
Las Vegas,
were held as herein appears,
Nevada
and that this is
the
original transcript thereof for the file of the United
States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and,
thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the
direction of the court reporting company, and that the
transcript
is
a
true
and
accurate
record
of
the
foregoing proceedings.
Official Reporter
Neal R. Gross & Co.,
Inc.
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